J Lipid Res. 2003 Aug 16 .

Efficacy and safety of dietary supplements containing conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) for the treatment of obesity-evidence from animal and human studies.

Larsen TM, Toubro S, Astrup A.

Dietary supplements containing CLA are widely promoted as weight loss agents available over the counter and via the Internet. In this review we evaluate the efficacy and safety of CLA supplementation based on peer reviewed published results from randomized placebo-controlled human intervention trials lasting more than 4 weeks. We also review findings from experimental studies in animals and studies performed in vitro. Overall, CLA appears to produce loss of fat mass and increase lean tissue mass in rodents, but the results from 13 randomized, controlled short term (<6 months) trials in humans revealed only little evidence to support that CLA reduces body weight or promotes repartitioning of body fat into fat free mass in man. However, from mice and human studies there is increasing evidence that the CLA isomer t10,c12 may produce liver hypertrophy and insulin resistance via a redistribution of fat deposition that resembles lipodystrophy. CLA also decreases the fat content of the milk among lactating women and cows. In conclusion, although CLA may attenuate increases in body weight and body fat in several animal models, CLA isomers sold as dietary supplements does not prove effective as weight loss agents in humans and may actually adversely affect human health.

Full article available in pdf format free at:

http://www.jlr.org/cgi/reprint/R300011-JLR200v1]]>

I'm sick of going to other boards and seeing members say something one way or the other...without any proof.

I believe that Ulter has a kickass product with his R-ala...but what about the Fast400 R-ala?

I think this would be worth sponsoring a lab assay for...to just settle all the damn he said, she said shit between the two products.]]>

Thx to all

]]>In this study, that will be divided into part I and II, I will measure the Blood Glucose and temperature response to a meal with different supplements(5). In Part I, they will be used and tested independently. In Part II, I will explain how they can be used synergistically with one another and the numerous benefits the stack offers.

The supplements used:

1. None(Placebo)

2. CLA(Vitamin Shoppe)

3. GLA(Vitamin Shoppe)

4. R-ALA(Anabolic Fitness and 1fast400)

5. ALA (Kilosports)

6. Acetyl-L-Carnitine(Vitamin Shoppe)

Blood Glucose monitors used:

Principal: CVS Prestige Smart system. Serial Number: 6429796

Back-up: Glucotrend 2. Serial Number: GH022114809

Every original 1st reading by the principal Blood Glucose monitor(CVS) was checked by the back-up Glucometer(Glucotrend 2) to eliminate inconsistencies. I set the bar at + or – 10% of the original reading. If more or less than 10%, I repeated the specific dosaging for the supplement or combination of supplements being tested. I also measured my bodytemp to see if some of the supplements possessed thermogenic qualities.

Thermometer: Philips SensorTouch. Accurate to +-0.1C Type: HF 37C CE 0344

Specific Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g) (Low Fat, high carb)

All measurements were done in the AM and/or anytime I hadn’t eaten for 12hrs, as there is NO FOOD present in the stomach after 12hrs, liver glycogen is empty, and BG levels are lowest. This is the BEST time to measure blood glucose fluctuations.

In fact, the GTT test is best performed in the AM on an empty stomach(Ask your doctor, he will verify this) (GTT=Glucose Tolerance test). Values for the blood glucose will be given according to the American system: i.e. mg/dl . This is the structure of each daily measurement.

1. Take initial BG(Blood glucose) measurement and BodyTemp.

2. Consume the SPECIFIC food and take the supplement in question at the specified dosage level.

3,4,5 and 6: Measure BG(Blood Glucose) levels at the 1 hr, 2hr, 3hr, and 4hr mark..

(Also taking bodytemp at each 1hr interval)

Supplement #1: Placebo

Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.3C (99.1F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C (99F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 40mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)

T+3hrs measurement: 74mg/dl Temp: 37.1C (98.8F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.2F (99F)

Note: This clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal. Definately made me hungry and lethargic.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

21 + 17.64 + 11.47 + 24 + 1 = 75.11 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative):0.64 + 0.47 = 1. 11 units squared

Note2: Total Area: 75.11 + 1.11 = 76.22 units squared.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.7min(5.83% Total time)

Measurement #2 of Placebo:

Intitial BG Measurement: 50mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4)

T+2hrs Measurement: 42mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.2F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C (98.2F)

Note: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

23 + 19.59 + 10.89 + 20 + 4 = 77.48 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line:-0.59 – 0.89 = -1. 43 units squared

Note2: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 78.91 units squared.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 14.3min(5.97% Total time)

Measurement #3 of Placebo:

Intitial BG Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 112mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 51mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

25.5 + 21.32 + 6.22 + 18 + 1 = 72.04 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement horizontal line(negative):

0.82 + 1.72 = 2.54 units squared

Note: Total Area: 77.48 + 1.43 = 74.58 units squared.

Note2: Again this clearly shows reactive hipoglycaemia(From T+1hr to T+3hrs), caused by the insulin surge of the High GI carb meal.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 21.03min(8.76% Total time)

Placebo Analysis:Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

(Units Squared)

Measurement 1: 75.11 1.11 76.22

Measurement 2: 77.48 1.43 78.91

Measurement 3: 72.04 2.54 74.58

Mean Area: 74.88 1.69 76.57

Time in Negative BG(Approx):

Measurement 1 : 14.7min(5.83%)

Measurement 2 : 14.3min(5.97%)

Measurement 3 : 21.03min(8.76%)

Supplement #2: CLA (Tonalin) Vitamin Shoppe Brand.

Dosages: 8g, 10g, 12g. (But Tonalin is 74-82% CLA by content)

So, taking an average of 78% CLA, we get;

Dose 1: 12g Tonalin CLA) = 9.36g CLA

Dose 2: 10g Tonalin CLA)= 7.8g CLA

Dose 3: 8g Tonalin CLA) = 6.24g CLA

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 12g Tonalin CLA: 9.36g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 48mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 61mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+3hrs measurement: 64mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.6C(97.9F)

Note: CLA stabilized BG levels for the 4hrs.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

6.5 + 13 + 11 + 16 + 9.5 + 16 + 3 = 75units squared.

Note: No reactive hypoglycaemia occurred like the placebo. CLA modulated the insulin surge from the pancreas, causing BG levels to not drop sharply...but instead they stabilized. This is how CLA works in diets and will be talked about later.

Dose 2: 10g Tonalin CLA: 7.8g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 96mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6 F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

T+3hrs measurement: 78mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 66mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1 F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12 + 24 + 10.5 +19.5 + 6 + 1.5 = 73.5 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

(0.5)(6)(0.5) = 1.5 units squared

Note: Total Area: 73.5 + 1.5 = 75 units squared.

Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 4 hours.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial)(Approx): 30 min(12.5% of time)

Dose 3: 8g Tonalin CLA: 6.24g CLA by content

Intitial BG Measurement: 76mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

(Eat Food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 104mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 120mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

14 + 28 + 8 +19.36 = 69.36 units squared

Area under initial BG measurement(negative)(Approx):

3 + 5 + 0.36 = 8.36 units squared

Note: Total Area: 69.36 + 8.36 = 77.72 units squared.

Note2: CLA stabilized BG readings after the high GI carb meal. But BG readings still dipped below initial BG reading after less than 3 hours.

Note3: Time in Negative BG(Less than initial): 67.2min(28% of time)

CLA Analysis:

(Units Squared)

Positive Area Negative Area Total Area Negative BG Time

Dose 1(12g)75.0 0 75.0 0.0

Dose 2(10g)73.5 1.5 75.0 30min(12.5%)

Dose 3(8g) 69.36 8.36 77.72 67.2min(28%)

As can be clearly seen, there exists a definite correlation between the amount of CLA needed per amount of carbs ingested. The 12g CLA completely stabilized BG levels after the initial spike(CLA is a fat, so it takes time to be digested and work), and they remained stable for 4 hours. The length of my BG analysis. The 10g and 8g doses stabilized BG levels for the first 3 hours. After that, BG levels dropped to below initial levels.

Supplement #3: GLA

Dosages: 1560mg GLA, 1300mg GLA, 1040mg GLA

(These dosages come from 1300mg Borage Oil Gel Caps containing 260mg GLA per gel cap). They are from the VitaminShoppe.

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 1560mg GLA(From 7800mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 59mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 72mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 79mg/dl Temp: 36.4C(97.5F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 73mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with this dosage of GLA included w/ high GI carb meal. BG levels spiked initially during the first hour then leveled off, and remained stable for the next 3 hours. Temperature did increase 0.6F from initial measurement to T=2hrs. This is statistically significant, and will be talked about later because GLA seems to have a slight thermogenic effect. Also, total area under blood glucose curve was smaller than placebo.

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12 + 13 + 5.5 + 13 + 3.5 + 14 + 3 = 64 units squared

Dose 2: 1300mg GLA(From 6500mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 81mg/dl Temp: 36.5C(97.7F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 117mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 101mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 94mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

Area under positive BG Curve = 18 + 20 + 8 + 13 + 3.5 + 9 + 2 = 73.5 units squared

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.

Ending BG level > Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA). Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=2hrs temp.

Dose 3: 1040mg GLA(From 5200mg Borage Oil)

Initial BG measurement: 83mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 129mg/dl Temp: 37.4C(99.5F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs Measuremen 104mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+4hrs Measuremen 81mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

23 + 7 + 19.5 + 7 + 7 + 2 + 11.5 = 77 units squared.

Note: No hypoglycaemic effect seen with GLA included w/ high GI carb meal.

Ending BG level = Initial BG level after T+4 hours. T+1hr BG Spike seen again like in GLA Dose #1.(1560mg GLA) and dose #2(1300mg GLA). BG fluctuations were more erratic in dose#3 than in dose #1 and #2. Seems that this is the smallest amount of GLA for the dosage of carbs ingested for BG levels not to go below initial. Again, mean Temp. rose 0.5F from Initial BG temp to T=1hr temp.

GLA Analysis:

(Units squared)

Positive Area Max Temp increase(F) Total Area

Dose 1(1560mg): 64 0.6F 64

Dose 2(1300mg): 73.5 0.5F 73.5

Dose 3(1040mg): 77 0.5F 77

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(Units Squared)

64/76.57 = 83.58% = - 17.42% reduction in BG Area

73.5/76.57 = 95.99% = - 4.01% reduction in BG Area

77/76.57 = No Net Change Seen.

Supplement #4: R-ALA

Dosages: 200mg R-ALA, 400mg R-ALA , 600mg R-ALA.

(From AF www.anabolicfitness.net and www.1fast400.com)

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 200mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 110mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

20 + 10 + 15 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 55 Units Squared

Dose 2: 400mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

0.5(10) = 5 Units squared

Dose 3: 600mg R-ALA

Initial BG measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

10 + 10 + 5 + 3.33 = 28.33 Units squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

5 + 2.5 + 0.83 = 8.33 Units squared

R-ALA Analysis:

(Units squared)

Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(200mg): 55.0 0.0 55.00

Dose 2(400mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

Dose 3(600mg): 28.33 8.33 36.67

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(600mg R-ALA)(36.67 Units Squared) 36.67/76.57 = (1-47.89%) = 52.11% reduction

(400mg R-ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.0/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

(200mg R-ALA)(55.00 Units Squared) 55.0/76.57 = (1-71.83%) = 28.17% reduction

Supplement #5: ALA

Dosages: 600mg ALA, 1200mg ALA , 1800mg ALA.

(These dosages come from www.kilosports.com ALA)

Kilosports: Lot# C07351

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 600mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

17.5 + 22.5 + 17.5 = 57.5 Units Squared

Dose 2: 1200mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 45 Units Squared

Dose 3: 1800mg ALA

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 36.8C (98.2F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

12.5 + 10 + 7.5 + 5 = 35 Units Squared

Area under negative BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

(0.5)(10) = 5.0 Units Squared

ALA Analysis:

(Units squared)

Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(600mg): 57.5 0.0 55.00

Dose 2(1200mg) 45.0 0.0 45.00

Dose 3(1800mg): 35.0 5.0 40.00

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(1800mg ALA)(40.00 Units Squared) 40.00/76.57 = (1-52.24%) = 47.76% reduction

(1200mg ALA)(45.00 Units Squared) 45.00/76.57 = (1- 58.77%) = 41.23% reduction

(600mg ALA)(57.50 Units Squared) 57.50/76.57 = (1- 75.09%) = 24.91% reduction

Supplement #6: Acety-L-Carnitine

Dosages: 1000mg AlCar, 2000mg ALCar , 3000mg ALCar

Food = 500kcal, 6g Fat, 14.3g protein, 98g Carbs (Sugars = 47.5g)

Nutrient breakdown = 11% Fat/ 11% Protein / 78% carbs (Fibre = 1.5g)

Dose 1: 1000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 60mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 80mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 20 + 25 + 15 = 75.0 Units Squared

Dose 2: 2000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 70mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 100mg/dl Temp: 36.7C(98.1F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 36.8C(98.2F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 85mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 36.9C(98.4F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 25 + 17.5 + 10 = 67.5 Units Squared

Dose 3: 3000mg Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Initial BG measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

(Eat food as described above)

T+1hr Measurement: 95mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

T+2hrs Measurement: 90mg/dl Temp: 37.2C(99.0F)

T+3hrs Measurement: 75mg/dl Temp: 37.1C(98.8F)

T+4hrs Measurement: 65mg/dl Temp: 37.0C(98.6F)

Area under positive BG Curve(Taking initial BG measurement as the horizontal) =

15 + 25 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 65.0 Units Squared

ALCar Analysis:

(Units squared)

Positive Area Negative Area Total Area

Dose 1(1000mg): 75.0 0.0 75.00

Dose 2(2000mg): 67.5 0.0 67.50

Dose 3(3000mg): 65.0 0.0 65.00

Comparison to Placebo:

Placebo: 76.57 units squared(mean total Area)

(3000mg ALCar)(65.00 Units Squared) 65.00/76.57 =(1-84.89%) = 15.11% reduction

(2000mg ALCar)(67.50 Units Squared) 67.50/76.57 =(1-88.15%) = 11.85% reduction

(1000mg ALCar)(75.00 Units Squared) 75.00/76.57 =(1-97.95%) = 2.05% reduction

Next post.]]>

I tried BOTH for 4 months each, NO difference whatsoever.

-Tonalin CLA vs non-Tonalin CLA

I tried Beyond-a-Century's Non-Tonalin CLA and loved it!

These BOTH seem like MARKETING-driven agendas at their best!

Please shed some light.

I frequent Elitefitness ("ulter's Board"....LOL) and sometimes I just feel like all the members are just brain-washed zombies following the masses with NO rhyme or reason, typically and simply only because a few MODS endorse things.

Thank you]]>

1) What is the best prohormone to use in order to gain lean muscle mass?

2) Is my four week cycle adequate? Or should I change it?

3) What brand is the best to use as far as being most effective and where should I go to get the cheapest price?

4) I know there are some side effects with prohormones...such as breast development, shrinkage in testicles, hairloss, becoming sterile, high temper...etc.

-Are these side effects likely if I just use it for a four week cycle?

-Are the side effects temporary or permanent?

5) What type of results am I looking at gaining from PH's? ... With four week cycle?

6) Currently I have noticed some thinning of hair and slight hairloss...if I take Propecia at the same time as taking a prohormone such as 1-AD would there be any complications? Would I prevent any hairloss that might occur from taking 1-AD?

Thanks for helping me out. I appreciate your advice/suggestions. Just to let you know I have done some reading up on this topic and did some searches.]]>

This very question is indeed key for those you use or plan to use GH.

IMO, if it is indeed shut down for 24 hours, Supergirl's premise of bedtime injections is optimal. If for only 6 hours, administration should occur in plateaus of endogenous GH release, as seen on the graph at the following link:

Any input appreciated, guys. Thank you for your time,

notatrase