Bill Roberts 2-4 cycle, sust or test e?  

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Malchir
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09/10/2019 7:13 am  

With the problems in China all my cycle plans are done for, prices where I live skyrocketed, so I've been researching more info about short cycles.

My current supplier is running out of gear and the only affordable ones are sust and test enanthate.

I've read, it is possible to do a cycle with sust or test e by just injecting them on day 1. Gains are quite low, but I'm willing to go that way anyway.

I would like to know which one will be out of my system the soonest to stop inhibition?

What I can find is that sust can only be dosed at 500mg to counter possible inhibition. Test e at 500mg might be out sooner, and perhaps I can even up the dose to 750 without problems. But I need conformation on that one.

test e is a bit cheaper than sust, but will be underground, so it might be of poorer quality.


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Zircon
(@zircon)
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09/10/2019 11:04 am  

would do 750mg test e. Do your 2 weeks on and make it 5 weeks off to make sure.

If it works could perhaps push slightly higher. I have seen guys whack in test e 1000mg without a problem. this assume u have no gyno issues of course.

I would prob take nolva 40mg 2 days before the 1000mg shot to make sure.


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Malchir
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09/10/2019 11:29 am  

I will do test e, after reading the anabolics 2006-profile on this there is no reason at all to chose sust, on the contrary, sust will stay active longer, cost more and provide only a marginal extra in test bloodvalues.

i'll try 625mg first, with 50mg proviron, to see how it goes.


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jboldman
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09/10/2019 11:46 am  

so, let me get this straight, you are proposing to take a single injection for your cycle and hope to have gains without any suppression?

jb


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Malchir
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09/10/2019 12:10 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
so, let me get this straight, you are proposing to take a single injection for your cycle and hope to have gains without any suppression?

jb

I will be suppressed, no doubt about that. I'm trying to get an extremely quick total recovery, doing 2weekers should have that advantage, according to bill roberts and muscle trainee.

I'm actually going in pre-season fight training next week, so it will be mostly for recovery. Considering mass, I looking to improve my muscle/fat ratio with little weigth gain.

I agree a single injection won't do much, but because of the current poor availability of other roids and my tight budget, it seems to be worth a shot.

I hope to get my hands on fluoxymesterone soon, but until then... 

This post was modified 7 days ago by Admin

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guijr
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09/10/2019 12:28 pm  

Single shot will do nothing, IMO.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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Malchir
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09/10/2019 12:55 pm  

Got one case of test e used in the 2 weeker

quote:


Feedback On 2 On / 4 Off Use of Testosterone Enanthate

Dear Mr. Roberts,

I was the guy who wrote to you asking you about taking 500mg of sustanon on day 1, then considering himself "on" for the next 2 weeks. Anyhow, I recently took 600mg of test enanthate. I took this dosage on day 1, then considered myself "on" for the next 2 weeks. My result, by day 11 of the cycle, was a total gain of 7 pounds. Additionally, I have been taking Proscar, the whole 5mg, to combat my current thinning hair. The Proscar prevented the acne I would have had, like in the past when I took Sustanon without Proscar. I just thought you would like to know my results, since you said the 500mg of Sustanon would probably not cause much growth.

Thanks for your time, and thank you for responding to my previous question.

Neal

Thanks, Neal!

That sounds pretty good. I’d tend to expect though that a few of those pounds will disappear once androgen levels return to normal. This would be from loss of retained water, including water retained inside the muscles.

But still, let’s say you wind up three or four pounds ahead. There are many advanced natural trainers who have not gained that much in their entire last year of training, or have gained only approximately that. So this is a good result for two weeks, thought not as dramatic as what can achieve when using more!

Given the choice of steroid, I think you used the right dose, since the half-life of testosterone enanthate is too long to allow high dose use in a 2 week cycle.

sounds pretty good, I want to test it(hey I made a pun), with proviron added.


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jboldman
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09/10/2019 1:15 pm  

i tend not to believe those gains are muscle, more likely fat and water if there were concommitant diet changes. Hey i do not believe it would hurt to try it. just do not expect it to produce much.

jb


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ready2explode
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09/10/2019 1:39 pm  

I think it's a bad idea simply due to the risk vs benefits ratio. You're taking the risks, but the benefits are doubtful.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Malchir
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09/10/2019 2:06 pm  

I think this is pretty much limiting the risks.

Lipid profile will at least stay decent, estrogen buildup will be very small, no liver damage, quick htpa recovery... I wonder what potential risks you see that I don't...

I actually don't want to gain any weigth at all this time around, I'm gonna try carb cycling to change my body composition.

I will post my results in this thread in awhile.


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Life4ever
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09/10/2019 3:32 pm  

LOL, When you are shutting your natural test production you better take full of advantage of it as that is the major risk to get minimal next to nothing for gains.


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Zircon
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09/10/2019 3:49 pm  

my opinion...whoever wrote that comment/reply thing...sust has a longer acting test in it. Test e is better, dont' care wht he says.

what you are doign...i personlly don't consider worthwhile. Prop works well fro 2 weekers, but I wouldn't do test e.

In your situaiton i would run 250-400mg test pw for 10 weeks and that's it.

You will gain a bit on that, btu it will be minimal, max 2 pounds muscle i'd say.

I did a sust inject once, I gained about 5 pounds and then lost 2.

so yes it kinda works, but it's hhaphazard and inefficient.


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guijr
(@guijr)
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09/10/2019 4:12 pm  

If you're already shut forever, then no problem, go for it, otherwise I don't recommend it.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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bear
 bear
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09/10/2019 4:40 pm  

What are the advantages, really, of the "short cycle" over the standard 8-12 weeker?

The theory goes that it effects HPTA much less severely. Okay, let's stipulate that. My question/observation: Is that really so important in this day and age of pretty well established and effective PCT? We have SERMs, aromatase inhibitors, HCG... Does anyone really, truly have trouble regaining normal HPTA activity after a 12 week cycle with appropriate PCT? (I am specifically excluding the guy who has spent the last decade on, non-stop.)

So, I find the purported advantage to be dubious. As for the disadvantage, namely modest results, well... My own impression (and it is just that, an impression based on anecdotal experience) is that it takes significantly longer than two weeks for real muscle synthesis to occur. Weight gain is a deceptive thing (water retention, diet change, placebo effect, what have you.) I find that real, lasting muscle synthesis takes several times longer than the two weeks that such cycles are based upon.

Just my $0.02


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Malchir
(@malchir)
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09/10/2019 5:09 pm  
Posted by: bear
What are the advantages, really, of the "short cycle" over the standard 8-12 weeker?

The theory goes that it effects HPTA much less severely. Okay, let's stipulate that. My question/observation: Is that really so important in this day and age of pretty well established and effective PCT? We have SERMs, aromatase inhibitors, HCG... Does anyone really, truly have trouble regaining normal HPTA activity after a 12 week cycle with appropriate PCT? (I am specifically excluding the guy who has spent the last decade on, non-stop.)

So, I find the purported advantage to be dubious. As for the disadvantage, namely modest results, well... My own impression (and it is just that, an impression based on anecdotal experience) is that it takes significantly longer than two weeks for real muscle synthesis to occur. Weight gain is a deceptive thing (water retention, diet change, placebo effect, what have you.) I find that real, lasting muscle synthesis takes several times longer than the two weeks that such cycles are based upon.

Just my $0.02

Is it healthy to gain a large amount of muscle in short time? I think not. The benefits for the heart by gaining 4pounds of muscle in 2 weeks against gaining 20 pounds in 12 and then losing 8 of them should be obvious. Imo it's better to spread it out.

Another thing is cholesterol values going to crap. After only 2 weeks on they will be back to ok much sooner, if already bad in the first place. After a 12 weekers they will have been crap for awhile and will remain crap some time after.

Mentally it's better imo too. How many people lose half of their gains after a long cycle and get depressed, and even quit the sport, or get back to juice while still not fully recovered. And you still need to wait time on+pct while off if you want to consider your health. That's only 4 weeks on shorters, 20 weeks on a longer. 20 weeks is a long, long time to lose gains...

There are plenty more advantages, but I'll post some of those later, as my work pauze is over.


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