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saint808
(@saint808)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 38
 
Posted by: Bilter
I do not believe JB is telling him to drop the tren only to leave the tren dose @ 75 EOD but increase the prop dosage.

I should have clarified, I tend to have ran higher doses of tren when I was on. That's why I didn't see a problem with it. JB made the point with a low BF% it wouldn't be needed to up it and I tend to carry a lot of fat but he should be fine at a smaller dose. Sorry about the confusion.

Disclaimer:
saint808 is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way, shape or form encourage, use nor condone the use of any illegal substances or the use of legal substances in an illegal manner. The information discussed is strictly for entertainment purposes only and shall not take the place of qualified medical advice.

To quote Oscar Wilde, "They say we destroy the things we love, but really the things we love destroy us."

It's strange, how laughter looks like crying, with no sound and rain drops taste like tears, without the pain.


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Adroitracer
(@adroitracer)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 8
 

it depends on your goals, but assuming you are bulking with Sust & Deca, The rule is usually 2 to 1 Test to deca to avoid the sides of deca (limpness and depression). Personally, I have had great experience with that combination at a much higher dose (1.5g Sust and .5g Deca per wk). clomid/HCG and Nolvadex will allhinder your gains because they are blocking estrogen and attempting to kick start your nads into gear. The testes will not produce anything until you stop injecting, so save your money on Clomid until about a wk or two after your cycle ends. your best (permanent) gains will be 1 to 2 wks after the cycle ends.


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Bilter
(@bilter)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
 

serms will not hinder gains in regards to leam muscle mass. I believe the genreal accepted statement it will hinder gains is due to the fact that it will keep the amount of weight that you do gain from water weight to a minimum. There are also some other benefits to be realized by taking nolva(20mg PD) throughout a cycle.

Them are some hefty doses that you were taking Adro, certainly not for the beginner...............or anyone that is not going pro imo


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guijr
(@guijr)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 802
 
Posted by: Adroitracer
it depends on your goals, but assuming you are bulking with Sust & Deca, The rule is usually 2 to 1 Test to deca to avoid the sides of deca (limpness and depression). Personally, I have had great experience with that combination at a much higher dose (1.5g Sust and .5g Deca per wk). Clomid/HCG and nolvadex will allhinder your gains because they are blocking estrogen and attempting to kick start your nads into gear. The testes will not produce anything until you stop injecting, so save your money on Clomid until about a wk or two after your cycle ends. your best (permanent) gains will be 1 to 2 wks after the cycle ends.

Why do you think that HCG hinds the gains?

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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cantspeak
(@cantspeak)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

ok thanks for replys guys, i appreciate the input.
thinking im gonna do this now actually and i know im gonna get some flames for this due to the experience factor

weeks 1-8 Test Prop 100mg ed
weeks 1-8 tren ace 75mg eod
weeks 6-11 Pct run with IGF-1 @ 60mcg ed


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cantspeak
(@cantspeak)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

i just found the igf-1 affordable at the time and i said what the hey


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Trevdog
(@trevdog)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 132
 

You won't get any flames from me. Personally I'd bump the tren up some. In my opinion that dose is light, and you're a big kid. Also, I like IGF LR3.


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Adroitracer
(@adroitracer)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 8
 

Why do you think that HCG hinds the gains? [/QUOTE]

I tried this approach over ten yrs ago. It does not work. For maximum growth and absorbsion, estrogen is required. Your gains WILL be hampered if you block the increase in estrogen. Your test levels on gear will greatly outweigh the estrogen. if you don't believe me, start a cycle, wait until the effects kick in after the 3rd or 4th wk. Begin taking nolvadex/Clomid in wk 5 or 6 and watch the rate of muscle gain slow to a crawl or stop all together. After a wk or so you can stop the estrogen blocker and the rate of gain will shoot back up.

HCG will not hinder gains as much as Clomid/nolvadex/Arimadex. There are limiting factors with HCG that will slightly hinder gains. Mostly HCG is a waste of time and money while on gear. There is no point to try and restart your testes during the middle of the cycle. Hope this helps.

Other than that it sounds like a great cycle. If your blood pressure gets too high look at an ace inhibitor like capoten.


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 507
 
Posted by: Adroitracer
Why do you think that HCG hinds the gains?

I tried this approach over ten yrs ago. It does not work. For maximum growth and absorbsion, estrogen is required. Your gains WILL be hampered if you block the increase in estrogen. Your test levels on gear will greatly outweigh the estrogen. if you don't believe me, start a cycle, wait until the effects kick in after the 3rd or 4th wk. Begin taking nolvadex/Clomid in wk 5 or 6 and watch the rate of muscle gain slow to a crawl or stop all together. After a wk or so you can stop the estrogen blocker and the rate of gain will shoot back up.

HCG will not hinder gains as much as Clomid/nolvadex/Arimadex. There are limiting factors with HCG that will slightly hinder gains. Mostly HCG is a waste of time and money while on gear. There is no point to try and restart your testes during the middle of the cycle. Hope this helps.

Other than that it sounds like a great cycle. If your blood pressure gets too high look at an ace inhibitor like capoten. [/QUOTE]

I think that your confusing bloat with muscular gains. Blow up like a baloon b/c of all the estrogen then deflate after cycle. I gain comparable on cycle using an AI as those that don't. The true test is what you retain post cycle.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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cantspeak
(@cantspeak)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

prevous cycles i have never used an AI or nolva during a cycle, i havent had problems either. Should i run one with this cycle?


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cantspeak
(@cantspeak)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

oh yeah also i did hear that estro blockers inhibited gains thats the reason i did not take them


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guijr
(@guijr)
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Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 802
 
Posted by: Adroitracer
Why do you think that HCG hinds the gains?

I tried this approach over ten yrs ago. It does not work. For maximum growth and absorbsion, estrogen is required. Your gains WILL be hampered if you block the increase in estrogen. Your test levels on gear will greatly outweigh the estrogen. if you don't believe me, start a cycle, wait until the effects kick in after the 3rd or 4th wk. Begin taking nolvadex/Clomid in wk 5 or 6 and watch the rate of muscle gain slow to a crawl or stop all together. After a wk or so you can stop the estrogen blocker and the rate of gain will shoot back up.

HCG will not hinder gains as much as Clomid/nolvadex/Arimadex. There are limiting factors with HCG that will slightly hinder gains. Mostly HCG is a waste of time and money while on gear. There is no point to try and restart your testes during the middle of the cycle. Hope this helps.

Other than that it sounds like a great cycle. If your blood pressure gets too high look at an ace inhibitor like capoten.

HCG is important on cycle in order to keep the boys full and down, that means avoiding atrophy. Don't you agree?

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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Adroitracer
(@adroitracer)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 8
 
Posted by: cantspeak
prevous cycles i have never used an AI or nolva during a cycle, i havent had problems either. Should i run one with this cycle?

There are various opinions on using estrogen blockers. I can tell you from experience that all estrogen blockers limit gains to a very large degree. I had a problem with Gyno and wound up having the tissue removed surgicaly. Aside from aesthetic issues, gyno is fairly harmless. If gyno is not a problem, there is not reason to assume you will have issues. You can gain lean muscle mass without estrogen conversion with things like Winny, Deca, Eq, Primo, Tren, Anavar, Masteron, etc. All these fit well together and make a great cycle. Hope this helps. Good luck.


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Bilter
(@bilter)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 167
 
Posted by: Adroitracer
[. You can gain lean muscle mass without estrogen conversion with things like Winny, Deca, Eq, Primo, Tren, Anavar, Masteron, etc. All these fit well together and make a great cycle. Hope this helps. Good luck. [/B]


this statement contradicts your previous statement that estrgen is required. I am by no means trying to flame you here, just want to get all the information out in the open. I do agree some estrogen in your system is a good thing but too much is a bad thing not only for the standpoint of gyno but also water retentions and an increase in BP due to water retention. As I posted earlier there are other benefits that nolva contributes if taken during a cycle. I also agree with guijr, hcg during a cycle to keep my boys full and functioning.


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Trevdog
(@trevdog)
Estimable Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 132
 

Estrogen blockers do not limit gains substantially, and HCG certainly does not.


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