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Proviron does not suppress endogenous testosterone?

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HitMeBack
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As far as I was aware, proviron, like other AAS, is suppressive of endogenous Testosterone levels. Big Cat has also written that proviron is quite suppressive of natural test in his bodybuilding.com steroid profiles.
Here is a study on proviron that some people may like to comment on :

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


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jboldman
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in almost all of the studies that i have seen reported using mesterolone in doses of 100mg/day there has been no suppression of the hpta and no effect on endogenous steroid levels.

jb


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Big Cat
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Mesterolone does not appear particularly supressive in normal men. IN men that suffer steroid induced hypogonadism I'd be a little more careful.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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ready2explode
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Posted by: Big Cat
IN men that suffer steroid induced hypogonadism I'd be a little more careful.

And there is the key!

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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HitMeBack
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What do people think about using mesterolone during pct?


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Big Cat
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Posted by: HitMeBack
What do people think about using mesterolone during pct?

That's the point I was making. Mesterolone may not be very supressive in normal men, but during PCT you are working on hypogonadal men. So I really wouldb't advise that.

Another concern is that mesterolone will competitively inhibit SHBG. SHBG will already be very low. You want to have more SHBG in PCT as it has several roles in testosterone synthesis.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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triguy
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I heard mesterolone would "compete with testosterone"? does this mean at the AR? and what are the repercussions of competing with test?


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jboldman
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i think the issue of competitively binding with shbg is the main issue here, other than that, there are very few documented effects. on balance, i would save the proviron for when you want a slight sexual boost on the weekends!

jb


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oswaldosalcedo
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Re: Proviron does not suppress endogenous testosterone?

Posted by: HitMeBack
As far as I was aware, proviron, like other AAS, is suppressive of endogenous testosterone levels. Big Cat has also written that proviron is quite suppressive of natural test in his bodybuilding.com steroid profiles.
Here is a study on proviron that some people may like to comment on :

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)

Posted by: triguy
I heard mesterolone would "compete with testosterone"? does this mean at the AR? and what are the repercussions of competing with test?


no.

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin
T Saartok, E Dahlberg and JA Gustafsson

It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H]methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta- hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4,9,11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha- dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone).......... bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) .........[relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [ RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone ( NorT ; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en- 3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05):Stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta- ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1,4-androstadien-3- one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha- methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha- adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases

dr frankenstein


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liftsiron
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I think that proviron is best served during cycle and not during pct.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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oswaldosalcedo
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Posted by: liftsiron
I think that proviron is best served during cycle and not during pct.

i agree.

dr frankenstein


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guijr
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Posted by: liftsiron
I think that proviron is best served during cycle and not during pct.

In you opinion, what would be the benefits of Proviron during a cycle? Thanks.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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omnibus
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Posted by: guijr
In you opinion, what would be the benefits of Proviron during a cycle? Thanks.

If you do not have testosterone in your cycle it could substitute for some of its effects - namely libido, mood.


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guijr
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Posted by: omnibus
If you do not have testosterone in your cycle it could substitute for some of its effects - namely libido, mood.

Fair enough, but if you have it?

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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Big Cat
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And what on earth would be your reason for not having at least a minimum of testosterone in your cycle ?

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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