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Quick response on E


testester
(@testester)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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Bros, I am on E cycle for 7 days now. My starting Hct 44.1, Hb 15.3, Tansferrin saturation 54%.
In that space I did 3X 3Kiu sc eod. I retested today and the results: Hct 45.5, Hb 15.8

That’s 1,4% improvement in Hct and .5 in Hb in 7 days.

All tests are lab tests ,done in the same time in the morning. I have red almost all the info on this board related to E and I think I have a good response .

I weigh 72kg and the brand name of E is Eprex. I am shooting the same day with E also Fe 100mg and B12+ Bcomplex.

I have red about the small possibility of the PRCA disease related to Eprex and sc method, and because I am planning to stay on for 6 months, I will try the iv route (a doctor will show me).

I will do another 9X 3Kiu the next 17 days and see how it goes. My target is to reach and maintain at 54%

What do you guys think for all that?

Ps. How about doing ed 1,5Kiu instead of 3 Kiu eod? Thanx testEster


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bikerider233
(@bikerider233)
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Studies I have seen show NO difference between 3x weekly dosing and 1x weekly - so I imagine ED dosing is a total waste of time


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littledog
(@littledog)
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Biker ... is an e cycle broken into two phases? A loading phase (Phase 1) of two to three weeks during which time you may inject 1x every 5 days and then Phase 2 being maintenance of 1xweekly?


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Realgains
(@realgains)
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Posted by: bikerider233
Studies I have seen show NO difference between 3x weekly dosing and 1x weekly - so I imagine ED dosing is a total waste of time

Yup.....

The most I do is every other day IV.

When going sub Q it takes a while for the epo to get into your blood stream...it slowly diffuses out of the sub Q fat and into tiny capillaries.

With IV it's "bang in there" so yo can get away with more frequent dosing but I still rarely inject two days in a row. The epo has to have time to stimulate red cell production and the body can only produce red cells so fast...and any amount of epo in the system that is above the amount needed for optimal red cell stimulation will be peed out.

If you want a fast response from epo then IV is the way to go. I get a WAY faster response, others not as fast as me. I can get .5 point raise in crit after 48 hour from one 3500 iu shot!

Funny the literature says that the Sub Q route requires less overall epo but for me it quit the opposite.

Personally I would not trust the company that makes Eprex when they now say that the have "re-formulated" and now their product is OK to inject Sub Q as opposed to IV. The reason?>>>because nobody ever found out why EPEX caused way more PRCA than any other brand. It could have been anything from the rubber stoppers they used to tiny additives. Sure even with EPREX injected subQ antibody formation was really very rare but...

Since you know how to inject IV I would be doing your epo IV if I was you....just to be ultra safe.

RG


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bikerider233
(@bikerider233)
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Yes, what RG said - beat me to the punch.

Best to see how you respond, to each delivery method. One never knows. Subj is way easier though, IV is a bit of a hassle.


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fran
 fran
(@fran)
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that exprex name is maded by who?...It comes in powder form or already liquid?

thanks!


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littledog
(@littledog)
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Eprex - I have come across pre-filled syringes


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cycle-ist
(@cycle-ist)
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Re: Quick response on E

Posted by: testester
Bros, I am on E cycle for 7 days now. My starting Hct 44.1, Hb 15.3, Tansferrin saturation 54%.
In that space I did 3X 3Kiu sc eod. I retested today and the results: Hct 45.5, Hb 15.8

That’s 1,4% improvement in Hct and .5 in Hb in 7 days.

All tests are lab tests ,done in the same time in the morning. I have red almost all the info on this board related to E and I think I have a good response .

I weigh 72kg and the brand name of E is Eprex. I am shooting the same day with E also Fe 100mg and B12+ Bcomplex.

I have red about the small possibility of the PRCA disease related to Eprex and sc method, and because I am planning to stay on for 6 months, I will try the iv route (a doctor will show me).

I will do another 9X 3Kiu the next 17 days and see how it goes. My target is to reach and maintain at 54%

What do you guys think for all that?

Ps. How about doing ed 1,5Kiu instead of 3 Kiu eod? Thanx testEster

Recheck again just before your next inj. ( a day). It might still be higher especially if SQ.

I am starting to believe that the IV method is superior to SQ in smaller (1.5k to 4k) more frequent (ED or EOD) injections and not in larger doses (possibly why others say SQ is more effective). I've never quantified this since I've only done SQ, but based upon the absorption rates....peak blood concentrations....and time-to-excretion, it seems logical.

MS, CSCS, CPT


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madtrack
(@madtrack)
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Eprex is good E it is made by Jansen Cilag;there was a warning issued for patiednts on dialisis using SQ..I have used it many times it is generally avaliable in Europe and Southern Hemisphere. The reason why u will get good response tester is cos u are using inj fe;just remeber DO NOT use inj fe and oral fe together it will reduce absorbtion ;wait 5 days after last shot of fe before u start any oral fe.E/D E does not work well at all ;EOD or 3x p/w is best ;u guys should do more research b4 u throw money away. M/track


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sportmuaythai
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I got about 5% haematocrit increase within 21 days. I was pinning chinese rediject three times a week. First 5 injections with 4,000iu, then reduced to 3,000iu. I think that if you preload your iron and vit B12 well, you should be able to get result similar to testester's and mine. Thankfully I got to read advices on the importance of preloading iron from this board, and verified my blood before getting on E. BTW I used Ferrochel iron and sub L B12, and avoided unnecessary pinning. After 3 weeks of E, my blood values still showed excellent transferrin saturation, and vit B12.


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cycle-ist
(@cycle-ist)
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Posted by: madtrack
Eprex is good E it is made by Jansen Cilag;there was a warning issued for patiednts on dialisis using SQ..I have used it many times it is generally avaliable in Europe and Southern Hemisphere. The reason why u will get good response tester is cos u are using inj fe;just remeber DO NOT use inj fe and oral fe together it will reduce absorbtion ;wait 5 days after last shot of fe before u start any oral fe.E/D E does not work well at all ;EOD or 3x p/w is best ;u guys should do more research b4 u throw money away. M/track

Mad,

Have you tried small doses of ED IV administration? I agree with spreading out the SQ method a little longer. Just thinking IV could be administered in smaller doses a little more frequently (i.e. 1-2 days versus 2-3 days)? Just intuition though, since I have never done IV.

MS, CSCS, CPT


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testester
(@testester)
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Joined: 1 year ago
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Topic starter  

I will try the iv route. I will do the last sc shot of the first 6 the day after tomorrow , then retest, and then switch to iv to compare the response . I will keep you posted.

Yes it comes in pre-filled syringes.

I do not mix oral Fe with inj. Fe. The inj. Fe is awesome because you can stay on E for long periods of time without getting anemic . testEster


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madtrack
(@madtrack)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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Posted by: cycle-ist
Yes i have used E IV E/D micro dosing in the past during stage race;500-750iu P/D(at night) ;but that was neccessary to avoid testing pos ;all studies made say EOD or preferably 3 x PW is best protocol for gaining or holding Hct /Hb.I generally shoot IV ;but SQ is effective.IV takes practice and can be dangerous if gear is bad or slow injection method is not used ;it is definitely not advisable without nurse or advice from experienced user (team mate etc)MAD
Mad,

Have you tried small doses of ED IV administration? I agree with spreading out the SQ method a little longer. Just thinking IV could be administered in smaller doses a little more frequently (i.e. 1-2 days versus 2-3 days)? Just intuition though, since I have never done IV.


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testester
(@testester)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 10
Topic starter  

Hey guys, 14 days after my first E shot ,6X3kiu sc, my Hct is 48,6 Hgb 15,7 ferritin 156.

Just to remind you, I started the cycle with Hct 44,1 ,Hgb 15,3 ,ferritn 162.

7 days after that and 3X3kiu : Hct 45.5 ,Hgb 15,8 .

Today after 14 days and 6X3kiu in total : Hct 48.6 ,Hgb 15,7.

Yesterday I start to feel an improvement on the bike. Better stamina and recover much quicker between big efforts ,and better recovery after the workout. I have some extra power also, but I don’t have a powermeter to confirm it. I feel like I have a little animal growing inside me! I am looking forward to see how I am going to be when I reach 54-55.

Today I started to inject iv. I see that with this improvement in Hct I will not need to load with another 6X3kiu to reach 54% .

What do you guys think? When should I start the maintenance ? thanx testEster


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cycle-ist
(@cycle-ist)
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Keep Going....you are on your way. I don't quite understand why your Hgb has dropped from last week even though your Hct is 3.1% more? Is that a misprint?

MS, CSCS, CPT


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