Messing With My Mind... Troublesome  

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Clarityandfocus
(@clarityandfocus)
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Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 10
10/09/2018 8:23 am  

Has anyone noticed hindered gains while on Accutane... A loss of insulin sensitivity, etc...???

The information on this discussion board (the link below) is very disturbing to me. It's always something isn't it? I am rather irritated at what I see here. I want to believe it is a bunch of bogus bullshit... Read what it says about androgen and IGF-1 receptors. Input is appreciated. I must use isotretinoin to save my skin. It works wonders. My doctor wrote me a script for it, but I get it much cheaper online than at a local pharmacy.

Clarity

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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 214
10/09/2018 9:24 am  

even if it caused some slight reduction of basal hormonal levels it should not effect a cycle. the receptors primarily involved are in the skin and for dht.

jb

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Isotretinoin, tetracycline and circulating hormones in acne.Palatsi R, Ruokonen A, Oikarinen A.
Department of Dermatology, University Central Hospital, Oulu, Finland.

Isotretinoin, used to treat severe acne, has been shown to induce hormonal changes, especially to reduce 5 alpha-reductase in the production of the tissue-derived dihydroTestosterone(DHT) metabolite 3 alpha-Adiol G. However, the effects of isotretinoin on other pituitary, adrenal or gonadal hormones have not been thoroughly elucidated. In the present study, isotretinoin administered at a dose of 0.5 mg/kg/day for 4 weeks caused no marked changes in the serum levels of pituitary, adrenal or gonadal hormones or 3 alpha-Adiol G in patients with severe papulopustulotic acne (n = 19). After 12 weeks of therapy, there was a decrease in the levels of the precursor androgens androstenedione, testosterone and 3 alpha-Adiol G in 6/9 patients. Acne improved after 4.5 months in all but 2 male patients, who had very low serum hormone binding globulins (SHBG) and a high free androgen index (FAI). Isotretinoin did not affect the elevated LH/FSH ratio in a patient with the polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS); nor did it change the high FAI or low SHBG in the male patients. For comparison, tetracycline had no effects on the serum hormonal levels of patients with mild acne (n = 19) after 7 days of treatment. This study confirms that the effects of isotretinoin on the serum hormone levels are small and unlikely to be of relevance for the resolution of acne or the suppression of sebum excretion.

Effect of isotretinoin on serum levels of precursor and peripherally derived androgens in patients with acne.Lookingbill DP, Demers LM, Tigelaar RE, Shalita AR.
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine, Pennsylvania State University, Hershey.

Sebaceous glands are stimulated by androgens and can convert them to more active forms. Isotretinoin, however, has a profound inhibitory effect on sebaceous gland size and function. This study evaluated the effect of isotretinoin on serum levels of precursor and tissue-derived androgens. Twenty-four subjects (15 men and nine women) were treated for 20 weeks with 1 mg/kg/d of isotretinoin. Serum samples were obtained at baseline, 8, 16, and 24 weeks, and assayed for precursor androgens--total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (free T), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate (DHEA-S); and tissue androgens--dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and its metabolite, 3 alpha-androstanediol glucuronide (3 alpha-diol G). Isotretinoin had no meaningful effects on precursor androgens, except for producing an elevation of free T in women. In contrast, isotretinoin produced depressions in the serum levels of DHT and 3 alpha-diol G in women and in 3 alpha-diol G in men. These decreases are believed to be the result, rather than the cause, of a reduction in the size of the sebaceous glands: The magnitude of the observed decreases may represent the amount of tissue-derived androgens that sebaceous glands normally contribute to the circulating pool.


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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 214
10/09/2018 10:05 am  

btw, there is only one reference to accutane and igf-1 on medline and in that study they concluded there was no connection.

jb


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need2getbigger
(@need2getbigger)
Active Member
Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 13
10/09/2018 10:42 am  

don't do higher cycles than 80mg of accutane. I did 120mg a day and I feel all fucked up after ward. I have this pressure on my skull all the time and heart papulations, and I can't go to the doctors until I'm in college full time again, to get my insurance, and hopefully my cheap ass parents will pay for it and not just point fingers. Accutane works alright, the sides are shitty. I felt like an old man on it. After 5 months of accutane, I'm using retin-a micro gel 0.04 tretinoin% and with 4 500mg pills of panothenic acid upon awakening and in the evening. Works wonders... if anything I think b5 would hinder the gains rather than accutane??? Dont take anything with vitamin A while on accutane..


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Clarityandfocus
(@clarityandfocus)
Active Member
Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 10
10/09/2018 11:33 am  
Posted by: jboldman
btw, there is only one reference to accutane and igf-1 on medline and in that study they concluded there was no connection.

jb

You are a good man, jb.

Thanks for the info. That is definitely comforting. The effect of isotretinoin on sebaceous glands is amazing. I have what is called "sebaceous hyperplasia." I've got overactive, enlarged oil glands on my face caused by androgens. The iso makes it go away. I've got my face back. I was getting concerned. Now, my skin is smooth, flat with a great complexion.

What about hormone receptors of varied types? It sounded to me as if some of those articles were basically saying that the retinoic acid mangles or suppresses the receptors, rendering them less effective. It calls the damage "irreversible:

Section 1: Significant irreversible hormonal antagonism - 1 Viewing
(Ro)accutane has a suppressive effect on the steroidogenesis (inhibition of formation of hormones, mainly through inhibition of several pathways in the metabolism of cholesterol), supresses hormonal receptors and cellular uptake. Hormones which action is suppressed include thyroid hormone, growth hormone, testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, progesterone, vitamin D and vitamin A. Circulating hormones which also exist in the brain as neurosteroids, with corresponding receptors located in several parts of the brain.

In another section it goes for the insulin receptor, stating there is decreased insulin sensitivity, etc... Brlow is a small excerpt:

Significant inhibition of the insulin receptor, suggested inhibition of response to insulin due to inhibition of insulin receptor promoter

The human insulin receptor promoter region (HINSR) contains six GGGCGG sequences [4]. Sp1 binds to canonical GGGCGG or its atypical hexanucleotide sequence, called "GC box" motif, of several cellular and viral genes and activates transcription of these genes by RNA polymerase II. Retinoid receptors RARs/RXRs physically interact with Sp1, potentiate Sp1 binding to the GC box motifs [5]. However, in massive doses of retinoic acid as seen in acne-subjects, Sp1 binding affinity to the GC box may be decreased, thus resulting in downregulation of the insulin receptor.

Does anyone have any input on the receptor end of things here? This info is really going for the throat in my mind. I'm likely to have nightmares about this now.

If this shit were true, acne patients on accutane should start to shrivel away and shrink in size, strength and stature with the inhibition of all the hormonal receptors mentioned on the website... I would think.

jb-- Again, thank you!

Clarity


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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 214
10/09/2018 12:29 pm  

in the studies that i read, the only receptors primarily affected were on the skin.

jb


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Clarityandfocus
(@clarityandfocus)
Active Member
Joined: 3 months  ago
Posts: 10
10/09/2018 1:04 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
in the studies that i read, the only receptors primarily affected were on the skin.

jb

Thanks... That is good news. That one site is the only place on the web I've found such information, so I'm going to just keep as low of a dose going as possible and forget about it.

Clarity


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