GH - (ed verses eod)  

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New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
23/05/2019 4:59 pm  

My doc. [now retired ] was really GR8! He was willing to help me out with "unapproved" uses for many med's. [There's a huge book (like the PDR, but bigger) that lists alternate uses for many med's. It's the AHFS (American Hospital Formulary Service).] However, the potential risks associated with taking too much GH scared him. I suffered injuries to my tendons, which prevented me from working out. I also suffer from MCS, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity), & sometimes even the best (processed) foods get to me. As I was only able to tolertate sustenance a couple of times per day, usually 1 meal & 1 protein shake, muscle wasting became a problem as well. I'm 6'1" and, at one point, I had dropped to the mid 140's. [NO, I do NOT have AIDS! I was tested & did not, & do not now, have any diseases!!! Then again, I wasn't tested for Mad Cow...hmmm...???]

Anyway, my doc. was willing to prescribe HGH, but wanted me to take a dose lower than the standard recommended maximums/day for GH deficiency. Accordingly, he only prescribed 0.6mg (1.8 IU)/day. When I 1st started taking it, I took it for over 8 months straight. I managed to increase muscle mass (with very little & very infrequent exercise), such that I was averaging a bodyweight of approx. 175, with approx. 12% bf. [At my "powerlifting" peak (when honed down) I was 210 @ approx 6% bf.] It had no apparent benefit to my tendons. However, there was another benefit. I am also Bipolar, and periodically suffer from extreme depression, which was never an issue while taking the GH.

While taking the GH ED, my blood levels were only slightly higher than prior to taking GH and, as it was having no apparent effect on my tendons, I decided to stop taking it to see if I would maintain muscle mass. Also, I wanted to keep getting it so I could store it up until I had enough on hand to experiment with increased dosages. [Note: I did take it from time to time (for from 4 to 8 days) when the depression hit. The GH (at only .06mg/day) caused the complete cessation of my depression within 2 - 4 days. I found that if I kept taking it for twice the # of days that it took to alleviate the depression, the depression would remain abated for "at least" 4 to 6 weeks.]

I haven't taken the GH in quite a while (except occassionally as an MAO inhibitor) &, although I am still maintaing a bodyweight of approx. 175lbs, I did lose some lean mass as I'm now approx. 17% bf...YUK! Anyway, now that I have a significant amount of GH saved up [as you may have noticed via my pic's; that is, if you've read my post in the "status classifieds" & gone to my website], I was hoping to sell it so I could instead get the LR3 IGF-1, which is allegedly far less likely than HGH to cause enlarging of the joints & organs. Though, from what I've been reading now on this board, at the dosages most guys have been taking (which dosages are more than twice what I was taking), perhaps this is a side-effect about which I need not be overly concerned. [Though the potential for the grow of as yet undetected cancer is still of "some" concern.]

Based on the evidence supporting an EOD protocol [about which I've read both on this board, and via the links provided by board members - thank you one & all!!!], it does now seem that HGH is best administered EOD at dbl the appropriate ED dose. I have no idea what the "proper" dose would be for "me," especially in consideration of my particular medical needs.

To achieve any significant results, not only to heal my injuries & increase lean mass, but also for both greater energy [so I can hopefully complete workouts (albeit neither high intensity nor explosive, but that are at least) of sufficient intensity to increase my chances of achieving muscle hypertrophy] & to noticably reduce bf, I would probably need close to 4 IU/day, which equates to approx. 8 IU taken EOD. So, at 0.6mg (1.8 IU)/MiniQuick, I could take 2 MiniQuicks (1.2mg = 3.6 IU) twice per day, EOD.

Based on the prevailing evidence, I now believe that taking it early in the day affords one a better chance for a higher natural GH release during the night. So here's my idea for the protocol I'm considering:

1. 5am - Get up 3 hours earlier to take 2 MiniQuicks
[while my stomach is empty & my GH level is
still high from the natural nightime GH release],
& then go back to bed for 3 hours;

2. 8am - Protein shake (then wait 2.5 hours);

3. 10:30am - Take 2 MiniQuicks (then wait 2.5 hours);

4. 1pm - Have pre-workout shake (then wait 30 - 45 min's);

5. 1:30pm - 1:45pm - Start workout (light = 60 - 90 min's);

6. 2:30pm - 3:15pm (approx) - Post workout shake;

7. 5pm - Meal;

8. 8:30pm - Meal;

9. 11:30am - Protein shake;

10. 12:30am - 500mg L-Ornithine + 1gm Arginine
(to stimulate increased natural GH release)
[Note: I do not believe that an hour is enough time
to wait after shake, as these aminos may not pass
through the blood brain barrier if interfered with by
other aminos/proteins still in the blood. Unfortunately,
there are only so many hours in the day!]

If the HGH does nothing for my energy levels, & my energy is insufficient to complete the necessary workout intensity (without further damaging my tendons), I will likely be adding AS to the protocol (which I "may" do anyway to give me a jump-start)! [I'm only resisting the temptation to add the AS right away, because it would skew the results of taking the higher dose of HGH EOD!]

I look forward to your feedback regarding my proposed protocol. Thanks All!


Member Moderator
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 592
23/05/2019 5:21 pm  

looks interesting. many years ago i was into the arginine/ornithine thing and i believe you to be correct you are taking too little of it and too close to a protein meal for it to pass the blood brain barrier to have any effect on gh although there may be other benefits.

I too am going to try the eod routine mostly to avoid side effects. will keep everyone posted. I am not going to get up early but will take it in a fasted state.


New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
23/05/2019 5:48 pm  

One of the "tricks" I used to employ [back in the day] was to "lightly" coat the capsules (except for a small spot at the very tip of the small end) with edible wax (I used honey comb wax), thus effectively making it a "timed release" capsule. I believe this provided enough time for the protein drink to be sufficiently metabolized before the aminos (L-Ornithine & L-Arginine) were released (thus enabling them both to pass the blood-brain barrier unhindered, & to effectively provide the desired boost in the release of GH). I & several other BBs were doing this & it seemed to work quite well! [fwiw]


Member Moderator
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 592
23/05/2019 6:12 pm  

even if you managed to get it past the bb barrier, the doses are way too smal to achieve a meaningful effect. as i recall the doses used back in the pearson and shaw days were in the 14-30grams range. i used to do that and man did that stuff taste like crap.


Member Moderator
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 592
23/05/2019 6:40 pm  

Here is an exhaustive review that seems to accurately reflect the research;


Growth Hormone: Amino Acids as GH Secretagogues
A Review of the Literature
Kimberly Pryor and Ward Dean, MD

Growth hormone is released by the pituitary gland in the brain. GH is responsible for enhancing muscle growth, burning fat and maintaining the immune system. Many scientists have linked the changes seen with aging--loss of lean body mass, thinning of the skin and an increase in adipose (fat) tissue--to the decline in growth hormone that begins in the human body by the age of 30 (Fig. 1,).

Growth hormone is a concern of many athletes and life-extension enthusiasts, who commonly use amino acid supplements to boost levels of this important hormone. Anecdotal evidence is plentiful that amino acid supplements can offer anabolic effects consistent with growth hormone release. But the question remaining is whether research supports the wide-spread belief that amino acid supplements really do act as growth hormone secretagogues.

Intravenous administration of some amino acids is known to result in a significant growth-hormone release. For example, the 52% rise in serum arginine that occurs after low dose, intravenous arginine infusion is associated with a significant rise in serum growth hormone levels. In fact, clinicians routinely use an arginine infusion test to determine the responsiveness of the pituitary to releasing growth hormone in humans.(1-2) Intravenous ornithine also increases growth hormone release in humans, producing a five-fold
increase in serum growth hormone in 45 minutes.(3)

Life extension pioneers Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw, in their popular book Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach, advocated the use of amino acids to boost growth hormone production, particularly ornithine and arginine, and the prescription drug and amino acid, L-Dopa (Fig. 2). It was clear that Pearson and Shaws protocol, including ornithine and arginine, did indeed appear to offer benefits. Pearson and Shaw state, L-arginine/L-ornithine cause the release of growth hormone by different mechanisms, so they are even more effective when taken together. However, their book does not go into detail nor describe any examples of growth-hormone-releasing studies performed on either of these two amino acids.(4)

Given the fact that scientists have presented us with a head-turning volley of contradictory evidence, is Pearson and Shaws unwavering faith in amino acids as growth-hormone releasers justified? An interpretation of the studies relating to amino acids as growth hormone secretagogues shows that, despite the mixed results, there are plenty of reasons to include amino acids in a supplement regimen.

Ornithine is derived from the amino acid arginine. High doses of oral ornithine have successfully raised growth hormone levels in some studies. Bucci, et al, investigated the effect of 40, 100 and 170 mg/kg of oral L-ornithine HCl on 12 bodybuilders. Twenty-five percent of the subjects experienced significant increases in serum growth hormone levels at the two lower doses, while half the subjects showed an increase in growth hormone at the highest dose. Growth hormone rose, in some cases, up to four times the baseline level.(5)

Unfortunately, the highest dose used to increase growth hormone also caused osmotic diarrhea in the males tested, a side effect not seen in the three females who consumed high ornithine doses. The females also experienced a rise in GH after each dose, leading the researchers to conclude, Oral ornithine should be studied in more detail in female strength athletes.

The ability of oral arginine to raise growth hormone has been investigated in numerous studies with conflicting results. For example, in one study, subjects given 6 grams
of oral arginine experienced a 100% increase in plasma levels of arginine without any growth hormone release.(6) Other researchers administered oral arginine to 12 young and 5 elderly non-obese adults, all of whom had a body mass index (BMI) less than 30. The subjects participated in three trials: resistive weight-lifting exercise with no
placebo; 5 grams of oral L-arginine only; and 5 grams of arginine supplementation prior to exercise.

When arginine was consumed at rest, it did not significantly raise GH levels, compared with baseline values, in either the young or the old subjects. In fact, GH levels in those consuming arginine at rest were significantly lower than during the exercise-only trial. Consuming arginine before exercise did not significantly raise the GH concentrations in either the old or the young subjects, compared to exercise only. Surprisingly, the amount of GH secreted in the exercise-plus-arginine trial was 20% less than during exercise only in the young subjects, indicating arginine may actually blunt growth hormone production, particularly in the young.(7)

Other researchers drew the same conclusion in a study of 16 young men during an acute episode of resistive weight lifting. After 3 grams of oral arginine and lysine, the subjects experienced a peak GH response to exercise approximately 15% lower than during exercise without supplementation.(8) One group of researchers, after reviewing the evidence, wrote, These results suggest that oral arginine, unlike intravenously infused arginine, does not appear to be an effective means of enhancing GH secretion.(7)

Researchers suspect that arginine may only act as a growth hormone secretagogue at night, rather than prior to exercise or during non-exercise daytime conditions. When researchers administered 250 mg/kg/day of oral arginine aspartate to five healthy subjects aged 20 to 35 for seven days, the rise in GH that occurred during slow wave sleep was approximately 60% higher in the subjects after arginine aspartate administration than in the control period. These same results were not obtained with a lower dose of 100 mg/kg/day.(9)

Another group of researchers achieved promising results when treating 12 normal adults with one large, 37.5-gram dose of arginine aspartate, administered orally. The treatment caused a small but significant release of serum growth hormone in these subjects.(10)

Arginine and Ornithine
When administered together, arginine and ornithine do appear to offer anabolic benefits. These benefits appear to be caused by growth hormone release, but this remains unproven. In a double-blind study of 22 adult males participating in a 5-week progressive strength-training program, half the subjects orally consumed a combination of 2 grams of L-arginine and 1 gram of L-ornithine; the other half consumed a placebo. Following a short-term strength program using progressively higher intensities, subjects
taking the arginine-ornithine combination scored significantly higher in total strength and lean body mass and excreted less urinary hydroxyproline (an amino acid found in collagen, the excretion of which is a marker of catabolism) than subjects on placebos. In reviewing the study, one group of researchers wrote, It was concluded that arginine and ornithine taken in prescribed doses can, in conjunction with a high-intensity, strength-training program, increase total strength and lean body mass in a relatively short time.

The researchers suggested that the lower hydroxyproline levels were an indication that arginine and ornithine aided in recovery from chronic stress by alleviating tissue breakdown. The reviewers hypothesized that these changes were due to increases in growth hormone release, although GH was not measured.(11-12)

Ornithine-alpha-ketoglutarate (OKG)
Ornithine alpha-ketoglutarate (OKG) is a salt formed of two molecules of ornithine and one molecule of alpha-ketoglutarate. OKG is a promising anti-catabolic agent that
promotes wound healing and protein synthesis. Researchers have hypothesized that OKG fulfills these functions by encouraging the secretion of insulin and human growth hormone, and by upregulating glutamine and arginine production. When fed enterally to trauma patients, OKG significantly increased both IGF-1 and growth hormone

Although few, if any, oral studies exist on OKGs ability to release growth hormone in normal subjects, studies do show that in healthy subjects OKG does increase tissue levels of glutamine and arginine, which are regulators of protein synthesis. In fact, animal studies show that ornithine alpha-ketoglutarate (OKG) generates more glutamine in the systemic circulation than glutamine itself when these substances are given orally.(18-19) Oral glutamine has been shown to release growth hormone in some studies.(20)

Arginine Pyroglutamate and Lysine
Arginine and lysine may work synergistically to release growth hormone. In a study of 15 healthy male subjects, separate consumption of arginine pyroglutamate or lysine
as single nutrients did not significantly increase growth hormone compared to baseline. In another study of normal young males, oral administration of 1,200 mg of L-lysine did not raise serum growth hormone levels.(21)

Studies indicate, however, that these two amino acids can work together to instigate the release of growth hormone. In 15 healthy male subjects aged 15 to 20 years old, 1200 milligrams of arginine pyroglutamate combined with L-lysine hydrochloride significantly elevated biologically active growth hormone from two to eight times the baseline value at 30 to 120 minutes after consuming the amino acids.(21)

Another study indicated arginine and lysine may act to increase growth hormone--but only under specific conditions. Sixteen men randomly completed four trials. Trial A
consisted of a performance of a single bout of resistance exercise preceded by placebo ingestion (vitamin C). Trial B involved ingestion of 1,500 mg L-arginine and 1,500 mg L-lysine, imwww.ely followed by exercise as in Trial A. In Trial C, subjects consumed arginine and lysine as in Trial B, but with no exercise. In Trial D, subjects consumed a placebo and did not engage in exercise. There was no difference in growth hormone concentrations between the placebo-supplemented subjects and the amino acid-treated subjects. However, in Trial C, during resting conditions, growth hormone was significantly elevated 60 minutes after consumption of arginine and lysine compared with the placebo trial. The researchers concluded that ingestion of 1,500 mg arginine and 1,500 mg lysine imwww.ely before resistance exercise did not alter exercise-induced changes in GH in young men. When the same amino acid mixture is ingested under resting conditions, however, acute GH secretion is increased.(22)

Unfortunately, not all studies investigating the use of arginine and lysine have resulted in positive findings. One study investigated whether oral arginine/lysine could be used to increase basal IGF-I and GH levels in non-obese elderly men to values similar to those of untreated young men. Researchers gave two groups of 8 healthy elderly men either 1.5 grams of arginine plus 1.5 grams of lysine or a placebo twice daily for 14 days. The researchers also administered the amino acid combination to young men during the same time period and measured GH and IGF-1 levels. The researchers found that arginine and lysine administration did not significantly alter basal or sleep-related GH levels or serum IGF-I, either in the elderly or young subjects. Our data suggest that oral arginine/lysine is not a practical means of chronically enhancing GH secretion in old men, the researchers reported.(23) Another group of researchers suggested the lack of GH release in this study may be due to the low doses used.(7)

Glycine is a nonessential amino acid contained in gelatin protein and is an important component of collagen. Although much of the early research revolved around glycines ability to increase strength in athletes, more recent studies have documented that oral glycine can indeed raise growth hormone levels in humans. In fact, researchers have hypothesized that the reason glycine has been found to increase muscle strength in many studies, (with females experiencing a 22% increase and men a 32% increase in cycle ergometry workloads after ingestion of 5 to 12 grams of glycine daily) may be the result of its growth-hormone-boosting capabilities.(24)

One study clearly illustrated glycines ability to act as a GH secretagogue. When 19 normal, non-obese subjects consumed 6.75 grams of glycine orally, growth hormone levels significantly increased for 3 hours, reaching a maximum of 3 to 4 times that of baseline at 2 hours. Interestingly, the only group of subjects not deriving a growth-hormone-boosting benefit from glycine was non-obese diabetics. According to the researchers, glycine is one of the stimulatory agents inducing the pituitary gland to secrete hGH.(25)

On the other hand, another study of eight men revealed that six or twelve grams of glycine daily for 10 weeks could increase urine creatine levels, but did not improve grip
strength.(26) These same disappointing results were upheld in a double-blind, crossover study of 33 football players given a placebo or 5 grams of glycine daily. After consuming glycine for 21 days, the subjects did not experience any noticeable benefit to work output.(27)

After reviewing the above studies, one group of researchers hypothesized that the reason glycine showed no effect in the later trials is because glycine enhances growth hormone levels already produced during a whole-body resistance training program and during anaerobic or intermittent exercise. In subjects performing endurance exercise where growth hormone release is low, glycine would not show any benefit because this amino acid only enhances effects of growth hormone already produced. The researchers concluded, Acute ingestion of large p.o. doses of glycine appears to stimulate release of growth hormone and increase creatine synthesis rates. Both of these
attributes are desirable for persons undergoing progressive weight training.(28)

More recent research lends support to the above hypothesis. In a randomized, double-blind, crossover study published in December 2000, 13 human subjects were given a supplement consisting of glycine and an L-arginine salt or a placebo over 23 days. Treatment with arginine and glycine increased the subjects mean resistance to fatigue up to 28% over the controls during acute exhaustive high-intensity anaerobic isokinetic exercise. The subjects taking glycine and arginine also experienced an overall gain in total muscle work of 10.5% more than controls.(29)

glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in human muscle and plasma, directly regulating both the production and wearing-down of protein and immune cell activity.(30-31) When 9 healthy subjects consumed two grams of oral glutamine 45 minutes after a light breakfast, 8 of the 9 subjects experienced elevated plasma growth hormone within 90 minutes. These findings demonstrate, the study authors wrote, that a surprisingly small oral glutamine load is capable of elevating�plasma growth hormone.(32)

In the small intestine, glutamine is converted into citruline, which in turn triggers the synthesis of arginine, an amino acid shown to release growth hormone in some studies. Moreover, glutamine is converted into glutamate, which can directly enhance growth hormone secretion.

Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the brains major inhibitory neurotransmitter. Studies have shown it is responsible for both the rise of growth hormone (when at rest) or the inhibition of growth hormone (when exercising).(33-35) Oral GABA supplementation has increased growth hormone levels in humans. In one study, a single oral dose of 5 grams of gamma aminobutyric acid administered to 19 subjects significantly elevated plasma growth hormone levels compared to placebo-treated controls.(36)

Additional Benefits
Each of the amino acids discussed here offers a number of other benefits beyond their potential role in growth hormone release. For example, glutamine shifts the fuel for muscle from glucose to fatty acids and accelerates fat burning. glutamine is also a precursor for the antioxidant glutathione, which protects the liver. Supplemental glutamine has shielded the body from stress by deflecting cortisol damage, and has prevented the muscle wasting associated with cortisol treatments.(37-39) Another example is ornithine, which is an important constituent of the urea cycle and, together with arginine, an important immunity-enhancing nutrient. Ornithine may help reduce
elevated ammonia levels seen after exercise, a benefit that can result in reduced fatigue.(40)

Given the number of benefits amino acids produce independently of growth hormone release, whether or not they act as growth hormone secretagogues may not be the most important consideration in adding them to a supplementation regimen.

Amino Acids Study Results
Intravenous Ornithine Produces a five-fold increase in serum growth hormone in humans.
Ornithine Increased serum growth hormone in bodybuilders, up to four times the baseline level.
Arginine 250 mg/kg/day of oral arginine aspartate given to five healthy subjects for seven days caused a 60% rise in GH during slow wave sleep compared to the control period.
Arginine and Ornithine In a double-blind study, adult males participating in a 5-week progressive strength-training program who consumed 2 grams of L-arginine and 1 gram of L-ornithine experienced significantly higher total strength and lean body mass scores and excreted less urinary hydroxyproline than placebo-treated subjects.
Ornithine Alpha-ketoglutarate (OKG) Significantly increased IGF-1 and growth hormone levels in trauma patients. In healthy subject, OKG increased tissue levels of growth-hormone-releasing glutamine.
Arginine and lysine 1200 milligrams of arginine pyroglutamate combined with L-lysine hydrochloride significantly elevated biologically active growth hormone from two to eight times the baseline value in 15 healthy male subjects aged 15 to 20 years old.
Arginine and lysine 1,500 mg arginine and 1,500 mg lysine increased GH in young men only during resting conditions.
Glycine In 19 normal, non-obese subjects, 6.75 grams of glycine increased growth hormone levels up to 300 to 400 percent that of baseline.
Glycine and L-arginine Increased
the subjects mean resistance to fatigue up to 28% over the controls during acute exhaustive high-intensity anaerobic isokinetic exercise and produced an overall gain in total muscle work of 10.5% more than controls.
Gamma Aminobutyric Acid (GABA) A single oral dose of 5 grams of GABA administered to 19 subjects significantly elevated plasma growth hormone levels compared to placebo-treated controls.
glutamine Two grams of oral glutamine resulted in elevated plasma growth hormone in 8 of 9 subjects tested.

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5. Bucci L, Hickson JF, Pivarnik JM, Wolinsky I, McMahon JC. Ornithine ingestion and growth hormone release in bodybuilders. Nutr Res. 1990;10:2

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Sport Nutr. 1997;7:48-60.

9. Besset A, Bonardet A, Rondouin G, Descomps B, Passouant P. Increase in sleep related GH and Prl secretion after chronic arginine aspartate administration in man. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1982;99(1):18-23.

10. Elsair C. Effets de l�arginine, administrie par voie orale. C R Soc Biol. 1985;179:608.

11. Elam RP, Hardin DH, Sutton RA, Hagen L. Effects of arginine and ornithine on strength, lean body mass and urinary hydroxyproline in adult males. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1989;29(1):52-6.

12. Di Pasquale M. Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete. The Anabolic Edge. CRC Press. Boca Raton. 1997, pg. 130.

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Endokrynol Pol. 1986;37(1):11-5.

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alpha-ketoglutarate on plasma amino acid and hormonal patterns in healthy subjects. J Am Coll Nutr. 1990;9(1):2-12.

19. Moinard C, Caldefie F, Walrand S, Felgines C, Vasson MP, Cynober L. Involvement of glutamine, arginine, and polyamines in the action of ornithine alpha-ketoglutarate
on macrophage functions in stressed rats. J Leukoc Biol. 2000;67(6):834-40.

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Endokrynol Pol. 1986;37(1):11-5.

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23. Corpas E, Blackman MR, Roberson R, Scholfield D, Harman SM. Oral arginine-lysine does not increase growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor-I in old men. J Gerontol. 1993;48(4):M128-33.

24. Beard HH, Ed. Creatine and Creatinine Metabolism. Brooklyn Chemical Publishers, Brooklyn, NY, 1943.

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28. Bucci L. Nutrients as Ergogenic AIDS For Sports and Exercise. CRC Press. Boca Raton. 1993.

29. Stevens BR, Godfrey MD, Kaminski TW, Braith RW. High-intensity dynamic human muscle performance enhanced by a metabolic intervention. Med Sci Sports Exerc.

30. Walsh NP, Blannin AK, Robson PJ, Gleeson M. glutamine, Exercise and Immune Function. Links and Possible Mechanisms. Sports Med. 1998; 26: 3, 177-99.

31. Castell L, Poortmans J, Newsholme E. Does glutamine have a role in reducing infections in athletes? Eur J of Appl Phys. 1996;73(5):488-90.

32. Welbourne TC. Increased Plasma Bicarbonate and Growth Hormone Ater and Oral glutamine Load. Am J Clin Nutr. 1995;61(5):1058-61.

33. Coiro V, Volpi R, Maffei ML, Caiazza A, Caffarri G, Capretti L, Colla R, Chiodera P. Opioid modulation of the gamma-aminobutyric acid-controlled inhibition of exercise-stimulated growth hormone and prolactin secretion in normal men. Eur J Endocrinol. 1994;131(1):50-5.

34. Rigamonti AE, Muller EE. Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and growth hormone secretion studies in rats and dogs. Alcohol. 2000;20(3):293-304.

35. Vescovi PP, Volpi R, Coiro V. Alcoholism abolishes the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)ergic control of GH secretion in humans. Alcohol. 1998;16(4):325-8.

36. Cavagnini F, Invitti C, Pinto M, Maraschini C, Di Landro A, Dubini A, Marelli A. Effect of acute and repeated administration of gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) on growth hormone and prolactin secretion in man. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1980;93(2):149-54.

37. Bulus N, et al. Physiological importance of glutamine. Metabolism. 1989;38 (8, Suppl. 1): 1-5.

38. Rosenbaum M, Bosco D. Super Supplements, New American Library, New York, NY. 1989; 4: 44.

39. Castell LM, Newsholme EA. The effects of oral supplementation on athletes after prolonged, exhaustive exercise. Nutr. 1997; 13: 738-42.

40. Cynober L, Coudray-Lucas C, de Bandt JP, Guechot J, Aussel C, Salvucci M, Gibodeau J. Action of ornithine-alpha-ketoglutarate, ornithine hydrochloride, and calcium
alpha-ketoglutarate on plasma amino acid and hormonal patterns in healthy subjects. J Am Coll Nutr. 1990;9:2.

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Posts: 3
23/05/2019 7:08 pm  

GR8 post JB! As for those dosages, we were only taking three times the amount I was going to take now, & we had definitive results with that dosage. I was a trainer for a brief period, before I got too busy with other more lucrative endeavors. For over a year & a half, there were a couple a dozen of us continually measuring our gains on different protocols. I and 5 others were taking the wax coated aminos at that dosage 1 hour after the nightime protein shake (& right before bed) for approx. 18 months, & we had better results than those who took the same dosage (but uncoated cap's) right before bed & 2 to 3 hours after their last meal/shake. It was not a scientific study with appropriate controls, so any number of factors could have skewed the results, but I am still convinced that we had an increase in GH release. The reason is that I also had my girlfriend & a couple of relatives likewise taking that dose before bed on an empty stomach (3+ hours after their last meal/snack), & all of them dropped in %bf, & had a "noticable" increase in muscularity within from 8 months to a year. [Note: Though they were all very active, none of them did any actual exercising. That said, I suppose it's possible that it was merely a placebo effect.]

Back to your post. I completely forgot about VRP. I'll have to checkout their library for any NEW info. that could be of some benefit. I have to wonder if taking each of the mentioned supp's at night (as opposed to during the day) would be of benefit. Whether they'd work synergistically, each through slightly to significantly different mechanisms, thereby maximizing the benefits to be realized, or whether it would be redundant (so to speak), as taking all of the supp's may not promote an increase in the release of GH any greater than would simply taking any 1 or 2 of them. This may be because some effects may be maximally realized merely by effecting the maximum possible receptors, irrespective of which supplement(s) do so, and/or because there is a limit as to how much of an effect is possible (regardless of the amount of any one or mores supp's taken. There is also the possibility that taking all of them together could result in a sort of competition, whereby they actually interfere with each other, especially those that must interact with the same receptors of which there are a finite (limited) number. Whereby a specific amount of each supplement is required to facilitate a desired effect, and less than that amount has little or no effect, then the said "competition" could potentially result in realizing little or no effect. This brings to mind the old adage, sometimes "less is more."

So, as usual, I suppose some experimentation is warranted. I will have to read up on the OKG regarding its potential for "wound healing," as this is of particular interest to me due to my injuries. I shall also endeavor to discern "HOW" the mentioned supp's work, to determine the efficacy of combining (some or all of) them, and then adjust my protocol accordingly.

Of course, if I'm going to add the supp's, which would (at least somewhat) skew the results of taking the hGH, I may as well add some AS to increase energy output (the aggression factor) and, for that matter, both strength & anabolism [so perhaps some Sust, Para & primo(my 3 fav's)]. However, in lieu of taking AS the 1st month, AS & hGH the 2nd month, & just hGH (and anti-cat's & anti-E's) the 3rd month (which I previously considered to be an optimal cycle), I will likely take the hGH EOD continuously.

Unfortunately, as my doc. has retired, I'll be waiting to see the new doc., & then an endocrinologist (hopefully within another couple of weeks or so), so I can get all the necessary (& desired) blood tests BEFORE starting the aforesaid protocol. I always get a baseline before supplementing with AS & hGH, & then continue testing once a month thereafter. Anyway, this delay will give me some time to do a bit more research.

NOTE: Many of you have provided some VERY impressive posts, and I very much look forward to reading many more of your future posts. THANKS!!!


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Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 592
23/05/2019 7:34 pm  

its nice to see that you are willing to not only experiment but research and document what you are doing. welcome to our board! I think you will fit in nicely.


Estimable Member
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 115
23/05/2019 8:02 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
its nice to see that you are willing to not only experiment but research and document what you are doing. welcome to our board! I think you will fit in nicely.


I agree.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein

New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 1
23/05/2019 8:31 pm  

hello all together,

sry, my english is not that good to understand all these studies properly.

probably you can help me a little:

i´m a road cyclist and i cannot decide for the right hgh-scheme for me.

i don´t want water rettention, no real muscle-upgrade, great feat loss, and all other benefits of hgh.

i was all the time on 3up to 4ie 5on/2off, but this threat made me curios.

shall i also go eod? especially when combining with igf-1 the next time?

Seabiscuit Hogg
Estimable Member
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 139
23/05/2019 9:00 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
looks interesting. many years ago i was into the arginine/ornithine thing and i believe you to be correct you are taking too little of it and too close to a protein meal for it to pass the blood brain barrier to have any effect on gh although there may be other benefits.

I too am going to try the eod routine mostly to avoid side effects. will keep everyone posted. I am not going to get up early but will take it in a fasted state.


I'm pretty sure ther are other benefits. Go with Ornithine hcl tho. Arginine pyroglutamate is better for passing the B/B barrier.

Seabiscuit Hogg is a fictious internet character. It is not recommended that you receive medical advice from fictious internet characters.

SBH :)

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