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Nytol2
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I find tren gives good strength, with little added weight.

masteron would give little weight gains too.


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HitMeBack
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Big Cat, do you have any idea how the AAS doses of a weightlifter, striving to maintain the same weight class would differ from a body builder?
Assuming the weightlifter is not drug tested, what compounds do you think would benefit him most? I would guess something along the lines of oxandrolone @ ~30-40mg/day or fluoxymesterone @ ~20-30mg/day or mestanolone @~50mg/day. Also Test Prop @ ~250mg total/week.
Comments?


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ready2explode
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I know I'm not Big Cat, but my suggestion would be to stay away from the AAS that bloat the most (Dbol, Anadroxyl-24027.html'>Anadrol), and control the weight one gains through DIET. You start putting on too much weight, cut back the cals. Without the energy to create the muscle, it's not going to happen.

Personally, I would think about test/halo, tren/halo, test/tren/halo, test/tren/winny, and the like. Lower doses of each (no more than 100mgs of test weekly) except the halo. I would experiment a bit with that.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Big Cat
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well halo is not a choice, you go too high you will get problems with liver and cortisol. But I agree with R2E, keep the test to 100 a week. Metsanolone and halo 5-6 weeks leading up to your events.

If you find that you are too near your maximum weight, good advice is also to take a longer off-season, and bulk up to get near the top of the next category.The extra bulk will allow you to recover faster, take in sufficient calories etc, to make comparatively faster gains in the weight you lift as well.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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HitMeBack
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Thanks for the replies. I'm surprised you only suggested 100mg/week of test. What's the highest dose of halo & Anavar you would take? (Of course these would not be taken at the same time).


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Zircon
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depends how logn u prepared to run etc and the damage u prepared to go for.

I'd go with around 125mg prop a week, 50mg tren eod and 20mg halo a day for 3 weeks, see where tht gets you.


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HitMeBack
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Don't powerlifters usually take 40mg/day of halo? I read a post from a powerlifter on another board who took 20mg/day for 4 weeks and got poor results.
Also, doesn't liver toxicity have more to do with how long you take an oral for than what dose you take e.g. 3 weeks of halo @ 40mg/day would probably be less harmful to the liver than 20mg/day for 6 weeks. Correct?


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Zircon
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tbh I don't know enough about it to answer your questions. The reasons i lowered dose was because it seemed he didn't want to gain a lot of weight at all.

I think most sane ppl would not really want to go above 30mg. I have seen ppl get very good results 20mg 3 weeks halo only...I think it has a lot to do with the type of training you do while on it (proper strength training eg 5x5 not just sets of 15 or whteva)

As for lenght of cycle as i understand it it depends on both. There is probably a middle ground for what you mention. Eg I would ratehr take halo 20mg for 3 weeks than 40mg for 1.5 weeks or 5 mg for 12 weeks. I'ts not only dpeendant on time on, also on the dose.

but in your option with 40mg a day 3 weeks I would prob rather do that than 20mg 6 weeks...then again i wouldn't want to go above 30mg anyway.


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Big Cat
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You can do 40 of halo for 6 weeks without too much trouble, if you take a long break from orals afterwards. With halo its hard to define poor results, at 20 or 40 mg, regardless, you won't see any real weight increases. Strength, agression, appetite, and appearance if you are lean are more the type of thing you'll look to get out of halo. But I'd say 30 is the standard dose.

100 of test just to keep test levels in the normal range. If you want to keep from gaining real weight, you don't use too much test, just the bare necessities.

Halo, 40 is really the max I would ever do. With var, you can go up to 80 or 100 easily, you'll find that is actually the range where you will be most pleased with var. At 40 its usually nothing but a dissapointment unless you respond really well. But at 80 var is a very good drug.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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HitMeBack
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I'll take your word on the anavar dose, BC but I've read heaps of posts over the last few years from guys who haven't noticed much better results on 80-100mg vs 50mg. The pumps over 50mg may also be too intense for any athletes except bodybuilders.
Oh btw, unlike when taking anavar only, test levels on halo will be above the normal range, correct? Therefore no need to take test at all.


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ready2explode
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Posted by: HitMeBack
I'll take your word on the anavar dose, BC but I've read heaps of posts over the last few years from guys who haven't noticed much better results on 80-100mg vs 50mg.

If the dose-response relationship of testosterone is estimated to be in the range of 1-1.5grams per week range, I would be very skeptical about those anedotal reports. The dose seems too low to just "max out" that quickly. Plus, I believe ppl BS their var results anyway.

Posted by: HitMeBack
Oh btw, unlike when taking anavar only, test levels on halo will be above the normal range, correct? Therefore no need to take test at all.

Why would test levels be in normal range? Androgen levels would be increased, but testosterone levels would follow an inverse relationship.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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HitMeBack
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Sorry my bad. Test levels will be suppressed, but androgen levels would be elevated, making up for the suppressed T levels.
Taking 300iu HCG eod should be enough to counteract the T suppression, so no need to inject any test.


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Zircon
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wud u rather run the hcg with that or test enan 125mg pw?

if so, why? or rather run t enan and every now and then a bit of hcg to keep boys working?


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HitMeBack
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I'd rather run the minimum amount of HCG to keep the 'boys' working, which according the study that has been posted here a number of times, works out to be 300iu eod.


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Zircon
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hmm interesting. may consider tht sometime.

but i usualyl run prop high anyway.


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