Test esters and H2o retention  

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BKK117
(@bkk117)
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31/10/2019 6:55 pm  

Have been reading a bit lately on this board and others about Test Prop causing more bloat vs the other tests. Any one have experience with retention and various test ethers?? Any input will be greatly appreciated.

BKK117 Flying somewhere in the USA.
"Helicopter pilots don't fly, they beat the air into submission!"


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Trevdog
(@trevdog)
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31/10/2019 7:19 pm  

I think you meant to say "less bloat". I personally do not perceive a difference between esters and that makes sense - because the test can't do its work until it is deestified. However, many people do report less bloat with prop than with long esters such as enanthate.


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jboldman
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31/10/2019 7:44 pm  

My experience is the same as TD's

jb


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T5K
 T5K
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31/10/2019 8:06 pm  

less bloat on test prop, it has a shorter half life and is less subject to aromatization than enanthate/cyp

you also get more test per shot with prop and lesser side effects compared to the bigger esters...


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jboldman
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31/10/2019 8:26 pm  

kindly explain to me why it is less subject to aromatization? if it were a one shot deal i might agree with you but when taken eod i belive the area under the curve is the same. One might also argue that the peak levels with prop are higher and thus MORE subject to aromatization. blood tests are really the only way to know this and i have not seen any studies specifically addressing this.

jb


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T5K
 T5K
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31/10/2019 8:54 pm  

That's what I read in this article: http://www.isteroids.com/steroid-esters/
I thought that prop was in an out of the body faster than the aromatases could get their hands on it compared to enanthate/cyp, I'll check to see if I can find literature on the subjest

This is the article that was referenced in the I-Steroids article. I'm going to read it this afternoon/evening to see if it was referenced correctly and see if they addressed aromatization.

Pharmacokinetics and degree of aromatization rather than total dose of different preparations determine the effects of testosterone: a nonhuman primate study in Macaca fascicularis.
Weinbauer GF, Partsch CJ, Zitzmann M, Schlatt S, Nieschlag E.

Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University, Domagkstrasse 11, D-48129 Münster, Germany.

Currently available Testosterone(T) preparations differ substantially in their pharmacokinetic profile that might influence their androgenic properties in terms of suppression of the gonadal axis, effects on anabolic parameters, lipid metabolism, and erythropoiesis. The present work was undertaken to determine the physiological effects of three T preparations with different serum kinetics. Twenty adult male cynomolgus monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) were randomly assigned to receive treatment for 28 weeks with either T enanthate (TE) every 4 weeks, T buciclate (TB) every 7 weeks, or T undecanoate (TU) every 10 weeks or remaining untreated (controls). Each injection delivered 20 mg pure T per kilogram body weight. Pharmacokinetic profiles demonstrated higher peak levels of T for TE-treated animals; serum half-lives were longer for TU or TB. Estradiol levels (area under the curve) were significantly higher in TB vs TU or TE. All T regimens suppressed serum luteinizing hormone bioactivity and testicular volumes declined (all P <.001 vs controls). Sperm counts were markedly lowered in all animals but least in TE (P <.01 vs TB or TU). During recovery phase, return to normal for all three parameters occurred significantly earlier in TE-treated animals, followed by those given TU, compared with TB (all P <.001 between groups). Body weight increased significantly during T exposure. This effect was stronger and more sustained in TB vs TU or TE (both P <.001). Serum creatinine and hemoglobin increased with high significance in all T-treated animals (all P <.001 vs controls). The lowering impact of T on serum lipids was markedly stronger in the longer-acting T preparations in comparison with TE, as were effects on purine metabolism (all P <.001). The pattern of exposure and degree of aromatization rather than overall exposure to T determine its effects in the preclinical primate model. Both fluctuations of androgen concentrations and the conversion rate to estradiol influence gonadal suppression as well as metabolism. These results have to be considered in men receiving treatment for hypogonadism or regimens for hormonal contraception.


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Dubbayoo
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31/10/2019 9:23 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
kindly explain to me why it is less subject to aromatization? if it were a one shot deal i might agree with you but when taken eod i belive the area under the curve is the same. One might also argue that the peak levels with prop are higher and thus MORE subject to aromatization. blood tests are really the only way to know this and i have not seen any studies specifically addressing this.

jb

probably because people take less prop than e or cyp. I've never heard of anyone going over a gram/week of prop. lower blood levels of T = lower levels of aromatization?


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Realgains
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31/10/2019 9:52 pm  
Posted by: Dubbayoo
probably because people take less prop than e or cyp. I've never heard of anyone going over a gram/week of prop. lower blood levels of T = lower levels of aromatization?

I think you hit the nail on the head bro.

RG

Test is test


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Trevdog
(@trevdog)
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31/10/2019 10:20 pm  

I skimmed through Hooker's article, don't have the patience to read the whole thing. It certainly didn't convince me that the ester does anything that affects aromatization, anabolism, or bloating. Again, the testosterone can't work until the ester is removed. One testosterone molecule is the same as any other.


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madtrack
(@madtrack)
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31/10/2019 10:44 pm  

It is so obvious, that one generaly uses less test prop than the longer test esters;so u get less aromatase, no other reason, test is test.M/track


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