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frink215
(@frink215)
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09/10/2018 7:07 am  

whats a good fat burner?


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jboldman
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09/10/2018 7:48 am  

cardio and diet! ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF SUPP?

jb


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frink215
(@frink215)
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09/10/2018 8:32 am  

yea im looking for some kind of supp. ive been reading alot about clenbuterol and Albuterol what whould u suggest? im starting to wrestle in some open tournys and i want to get a little more lean.


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heavyweight
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09/10/2018 9:14 am  

well from the looks of it you are under 21, control your diet and stay away from this stuff.


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guijr
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09/10/2018 9:53 am  

Cardio (on a empty stomach) early in the morning and resistance training, low carb diet, low fat (I said low not "no fat") and moderate to high protein for several months. Maybe some coffee and Yombine (Jboldman knows a lot about it) prior to cardio workout.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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HugeDeep
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09/10/2018 10:28 am  

Everybody's lookin' for the easy way out. watch the diet like the others said, your physique is an image of your diet.

"SPES ET FIDES"


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guijr
(@guijr)
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09/10/2018 11:01 am  
Posted by: frink215
yea im looking for some kind of supp. ive been reading alot about clenbuterol and Albuterol what whould u suggest? im starting to wrestle in some open tournys and i want to get a little more lean.

clen may damage heart cell and Albuterol/SAlbuterol gave me very intense headaches, muscle weakness and depression-like symptoms.

==============================

Burniston JG, Ng Y, Clark WA, Colyer J, Tan LB, Goldspink DF. Myotoxic effects of clenbuterol in the rat heart and soleus muscle. J Appl Physiol. 2002;93(5):1824-32.

ABSTRACT

Myocyte-specific necrosis in the heart and soleus muscle of adult male Wistar rats was investigated in response to a single subcutaneous injection of the anabolic beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol. Necrosis was immunohistochemically detected by administration of a myosin antibody 1 h before the clenbuterol challenge and quantified by using image analysis. clenbuterol-induced myocyte necrosis occurred against a background of zero damage in control muscles. In the heart, the clenbuterol-induced necrosis was not uniform, being more abundant in the left subendocardium and peaking 2.4 mm from the apex. After position (2.4 mm from the apex), dose (5 mg clenbuterol/kg), and sampling time (12 h) were optimized, maximum cardiomyocyte necrosis was found to be 1.0 +/- 0.2%. In response to the same parameters (i.e., 5 mg of clenbuterol and sampled at 12 h), skeletal myocyte necrosis was 4.4 +/- 0.8% in the soleus. These data show significant myocyte-specific necrosis in the heart and skeletal muscle of the rat. Such irreversible damage in the heart suggests that clenbuterol may be damaging to long-term health.

==============================

Kierzkowska B, Stanczyk J, Kasprzak JD. Myocardial infarction in a 17-year-old body builder using clenbuterol. Circ J. 2005;69(9):1144-6.

ABSTRACT

A case of non-Q myocardial infarction in a previously healthy 17-year-old body builder, who used clenbuterol, a long-acting beta(2) adrenergic agonist with anabolic and lipolytic effects, is reported. Only 1 case report of myocardial infarction associated with the use of clenbuterol was found in a literature review and that case was, however, associated with anabolic steroid use. This is the first case report to describe myocardial infarction in a young male body builder only taking clenbuterol.

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by Admin

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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MissTam
(@misstam)
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09/10/2018 11:37 am  

i'm 22, is it cool for me to take clen?

just a little lady lookin' for some good tips.


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jboldman
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09/10/2018 12:22 pm  

it is all about informed choice. many take clen and use it effectively. THere are also those of us that used to take clen but after reading the research demonstrating the possiblility of permanent heart damage chose not to do clen any more. My advice, skip it.

jb


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srfchsr
(@srfchsr)
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09/10/2018 12:57 pm  

Look at the doseage used in that study:

quote:


dose (5 mg clenbuterol/kg)


We typically stop our usage around 140mcg.

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by Admin

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macro
(@macro)
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09/10/2018 1:50 pm  

actually similar studies have found apoptosis of cardiac tissue begins with 1mcg/kg.

EC and Thermorexin are solid choices.

if you take clen
ALCAR (protects cardiac tissue)
taurine
magnesium
potassium


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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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09/10/2018 2:28 pm  

i refer you to this thread posted by Nandi where apoptosis was incurred at doses as low as 1 mcg/kg and peak apoptosis in the soleus was incurred at 10mcg/kg. ANy way you slice it and dice it, it is a risk. If you chose to do it, at least you will be aware of the risk and it will be your choice to make that decision. Do not try to make the point that there is NO risk without some adequate basis.

jb

 

Posted by: srfchsr
Look at the doseage used in that study:

We typically stop our usage around 140mcg.

This post was modified 2 weeks  ago by Admin

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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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09/10/2018 3:24 pm  

Ah, i see that macro beat me to it.

jb


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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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Posts: 269
09/10/2018 4:10 pm  

This is an interesting read to points out that apoptosis occurs almost immediately.

jb

======

Muscle Nerve. 2005 Dec;32(6):767-74. Related Articles, Links

Dose-dependent apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death induced by the beta2-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol.

Burniston JG, Chester N, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

Research Institute for Sport and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK. j.burniston@livjm.ac.uk

We have investigated the dose- and time-dependency of myocyte apoptosis and necrosis induced by the beta2-adrenergic receptor agonist, clenbuterol, with the aim of determining whether myocyte apoptosis and necrosis are two separate processes or a continuum of events. Male Wistar rats were administered subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol, and immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte-specific apoptosis and necrosis. Myocyte apoptosis peaked 4 h after, and necrosis 12 h after, clenbuterol administration. In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2.0%; P < 0.05) was induced by 10 mug and peak necrosis (7.4 +/- 1.7%; P < 0.05) by 5 mg x kg(-1) clenbuterol. Twelve hours after clenbuterol administration, 73% of damaged myocytes labeled as necrotic, 27% as apoptotic and necrotic, and 0% as purely apoptotic. Administrations of clenbuterol (10 microg x kg(-1)) at 48-h intervals induced cumulative myocyte death over 8 days. These data show that the phenotype of myocyte death is dependent on the magnitude of the insult and the time at which it is investigated. Only very low doses induced apoptosis alone; in most cases apoptotic myocytes lysed and became necrotic and the magnitude of necrosis was greater than that of apoptosis. Thus, it is important to investigate both apoptotic and necrotic myocyte death, contrary to the current trend of only investigating apoptotic cell death.


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Syr
 Syr
(@syr)
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09/10/2018 5:01 pm  

Re: fat burner

Posted by: frink215
whats a good fat burner?

DNP

Knowledge is Power


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