Heaviest weight on the first set?  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS

ready2explode
(@ready2explode)
Reputable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 305
27/08/2019 12:51 pm  

I've asked this in the past, and have never received a satisfactory answer. What do you guys have to say...

Why don't bbers use the heaviest weight on the first set and pyramid down instead of up? By doing so, the body would be under maximal strain for all sets, not just the last.

For example, if one was doing a traditional chest day their weights may look like this:

6x 225, 6x 235, 6x245

Well, if you could do 245 for 6 after 3 sets then you really didn't accomplish much on your first set, did you?

I've incorporated this idea into my workouts, and it would look like this:

6x255, 6x235, 6x215

I'm not using real numbers, just illustrating a point. Wouldn't one gain more using the latter method? Intensity would be at 100% the entire routine.

BTW, I've compensated for such high intensity by backing off the number of sets I perform.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


Quote
Wheelies
(@wheelies)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 90
27/08/2019 1:17 pm  

I prefer to start low and work up. I do this because I believe that muscles need to be warmed up to help prevent injuries. You wouldn't jump out of bed first thing in the morning and try to run a five minute mile would you?

As for intensity, you can still go 100% on the third, fourth, and fifth set (a good spotter helps). You can always add another set or two and pyramid down. Another way to increase intensity is reducing the rest between sets.

I will venture to say that you'll get lots of varied answers here, but I would also guess that the majority will say pyramid up. It's just a method that's been around forever and it works.


ReplyQuote
HugeDeep
(@hugedeep)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 168
27/08/2019 1:43 pm  

Well in an effort to eliminate stagnant lifts about a year ago i decided to be inventive and utilized a similar idea.

5 sets of 5 reps

First set, warm up @ 135

Second set, warm up @ 215

Third set, working set @ 315 on this one i go for three negatives

Fourth set, working set @ 315 on this one i go for four negatives

Fifth set, working set @ 315 on this one i go for five negatives

That spun me into an upward spiral of gains on bench and many other lifts. The weight is an example but after the two light warmups you hit it hard and hammer it home! Your muscles will get the idea! As for my lifts now, lets just say that it worked like a champ. In one year i went up 125 pounds on bench.
HD

"SPES ET FIDES"


ReplyQuote
jboldman
(@jboldman)
Member Moderator
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1054
27/08/2019 2:04 pm  

whenever i am inteersted in max lifts i always do a warmup and go for the heaviest weight i can do. otherwise i pyramid up.

jb


ReplyQuote
PC1
 PC1
(@pc1)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 38
27/08/2019 2:25 pm  

Congrats Huge Deep. Interesting approach. On your 3 sets of negatives........ Does a spotter assist with the positive aspect of each rep? And how slowly do you perform each negative rep (in seconds)? And lastly, when you do 5 negatives on your last set, are those done at the same speed as your first set with 3 negatives (meaning your last set of negatives is the most intense)? I ask this last question because it would seem to me that if each set of negatives is really intense, you shouldn't be able to increase reps with eash set...... in the same way that a lifter shoudn't be able to do a set of positives with the same weight for increasing reps each set if they're going to true failure?

Excellent results man.

Be well.

PC1

"You still got the tools, but they're different" (Angelo Dundee => Muhammad Ali)

6'4"
242 lbs.
leaning out a bit

"One guy thinks he can, another guy thinks he can't. Both are right. Which one are you son?" (Nike commercial football coach)


ReplyQuote
ready2explode
(@ready2explode)
Reputable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 305
27/08/2019 2:51 pm  

Just so we know, I was referring to sets after a thorough warm-up.

If a person was simply warming up, and this was the reason to pyramid up, then why pyramid up on every exercise? Wouldn't one simply pyramid up on the first and for the rest of the exercises he performed pyramid down?

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


ReplyQuote
dblthunder
(@dblthunder)
Active Member
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 13
27/08/2019 3:12 pm  

The last 6 weeks I have changed my routine to the following: min. 4 sets, 10 reps each set, max rest 30 - 60 seconds between sets pyramiding up until I get to a weight that I can not lift more than 4 reps. Once I have peaked I lower the weight about 10 to 20% and do another 8 - 12 reps. I do all positives on the way up. At this point starting with last weight lifted, I pyramid down doing negatives 4 sets, 6 + reps same 30 - 60 second rest period.
I am no expert at weight lifting but threw this together after reading all that I have read and have had great results from it. My thought process was that once I peaked in positives I had stretced the muscle as far as I could, by dropping the weight and continuing with one more set, I figured I was pumping the muscle up to the same place as when I peaked (since I had allready stretched it) thus one more set at a lower weight allowed the muscle to be filled to the same place with less weight for a second time. (Remember this is just my therory) The reasons I do the negatives on the way down is because they are bear and I feel they hinder my ability to lift heavier weights. Once I have peaked on positives I have no problems burning my muscles out a second time on the way down. Since the muscles were fatigued on the way up it takes less weight to fatigue them doing the negatives. (I realize these are not true negatives, but they do burn and have a profound effect on the worked muscle) For what ever reason this has increased my strength noticeably while still loosing weight.

My .02 and humble imput......
DblThunder


ReplyQuote
jboldman
(@jboldman)
Member Moderator
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1054
27/08/2019 3:37 pm  

you need to make sure that you allow for full recovery working out in that fashion.

jb


ReplyQuote
guijr
(@guijr)
Honorable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 743
27/08/2019 4:01 pm  

Pyramiding up seems safer in my experience, but bodybuilders like us can handle that for sure without much problem.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


ReplyQuote
jboldman
(@jboldman)
Member Moderator
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1054
27/08/2019 4:28 pm  

as long as you do an adequate warm up prior to the lift there should be no problem, Whenever i wnat to check my strength in a lift i do the target weight first. I never do one rep max however.

jb


ReplyQuote
HugeDeep
(@hugedeep)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 168
27/08/2019 4:50 pm  
Posted by: PC1
Congrats Huge Deep. Interesting approach. On your 3 sets of negatives........ Does a spotter assist with the positive aspect of each rep? And how slowly do you perform each negative rep (in seconds)? And lastly, when you do 5 negatives on your last set, are those done at the same speed as your first set with 3 negatives (meaning your last set of negatives is the most intense)? I ask this last question because it would seem to me that if each set of negatives is really intense, you shouldn't be able to increase reps with eash set...... in the same way that a lifter shoudn't be able to do a set of positives with the same weight for increasing reps each set if they're going to true failure?

Excellent results man.

Hey PC1

You have got to have a good partner/spotter. Someone who knows you well and knows your lifting style. My bro will lift most of the weight for each neg. I do all the work going down, as to be expected. For the first set of negs they are precise and methodical. By the last set of negs they are falling quite rapidly and i sometimes need a spot going up on that set for the last rep or two. I dont increase reps per set but i do increase the negative reps. you prob meant that but letting the weight come down with control is the idea for my negatives. When i lose my form and it gets ridiculous my spotter knows when to call it off. It prob wont work for everyone but after the week off that i do i come back ready to tackle it all over again. A 12 week stint of those will kick start any type of gainer/lifter. If i go to failure on the last set and i only do three positives my spotter will assist with more negatives and the next week or two i usually can take care of the weight. Kind of a symbiotic relationship really. i get a good chest and my bro gets a good back workout!!! Take care!
HD

"SPES ET FIDES"


ReplyQuote
HugeDeep
(@hugedeep)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 168
27/08/2019 5:09 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
as long as you do an adequate warm up prior to the lift there should be no problem, Whenever i wnat to check my strength in a lift i do the target weight first. I never do one rep max however.

jb

One rep maxes are for high school football players!!!
HD

"SPES ET FIDES"


ReplyQuote
DocJ
 DocJ
(@docj)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 79
27/08/2019 5:29 pm  
Posted by: ready2explode
Just so we know, I was referring to sets after a thorough warm-up.

If a person was simply warming up, and this was the reason to pyramid up, then why pyramid up on every exercise? Wouldn't one simply pyramid up on the first and for the rest of the exercises he performed pyramid down?

If one is thoroughly warmed up I don't see a reason for pyramiding. Going back to your original post, I know a lot of pros pyramid b/c most are training through nagging injuries almost constantly from all the wear and tear they take in the gym. Not to mention tendons and ligaments that have questionable durability d/t heavy aas use.


ReplyQuote
pillsbury
(@pillsbury)
Active Member
Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 11
27/08/2019 5:50 pm  
Posted by: Wheelies
I prefer to start low and work up. I do this because I believe that muscles need to be warmed up to help prevent injuries. You wouldn't jump out of bed first thing in the morning and try to run a five minute mile would you?

why not?? i've neve seen a bear or lion stretch before it killed another animal, nor have i heard of an animal telling the hunter/prey (whichever you prefer) to hold on so it can get warmed up...

hmm... im guessing somebody is going to bring to my attention that we are not animals...


ReplyQuote
jboldman
(@jboldman)
Member Moderator
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1054
27/08/2019 6:11 pm  

but of course we ARE animals, just not rats!

jb


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share:

Please Login or Register