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getting rid of gyno w/out surgery  

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Andy13
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07/02/2020 9:13 am  

I've heard guys have had success with letro/nolva. But does this mainly remedy on-cycle gyno? What about a minor case of gyno from puberty? Will the combo work then as well?


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Bilter
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07/02/2020 9:37 am  

Re: getting rid of gyno w/out surgery

Posted by: Andy13
I've heard guys have had success with letro/nolva. But does this mainly remedy on-cycle gyno? What about a minor case of gyno from puberty? Will the combo work then as well?

I had to have the surgery to get rid of my puberty induced gyno. I did not try letro at the time but I did try nolva to no avail. letro may work, I don't know the answer.


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liftsiron
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07/02/2020 10:00 am  

letro won't do a thing for existing gyno, nolva may have some effect.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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jboldman
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07/02/2020 10:29 am  

lifts is correct, you can try a course of Nolvadex, this has a proven track record but no guarantee.

jb


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ready2explode
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07/02/2020 10:59 am  
Posted by: jboldman
lifts is correct, you can try a course of nolvadex, this has a proven track record but no guarantee.

jb

The hard lumps tend to subside a bit with nolva treatment, but the fat and puffiness is the real bitch to rid yourself of.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Neuromancer
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07/02/2020 11:25 am  

I read a few reports that Raloxifene worked better than tamox for reducing glandular gyno.

If I remember correctly epistane had a few users saying it shrunk their lumps as well...I googled it real quick and came up with one example.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1237371


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jboldman
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07/02/2020 12:16 pm  

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. slawrence@cheo.on.ca

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifen in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia. STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene). RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients. CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.


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Andy13
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07/02/2020 12:45 pm  

Ok, but I've done fina-only cycles before (for long periods). Wouldn't that pretty much reduced my estrogen to nil? Yet my gyno did not improve. What's so magical about nolva?


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Bilter
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07/02/2020 1:06 pm  

nolva does not reduce estrogen levels, it is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator). It blocks estrogen receptors in tissue so that the estrogen has not place to bind. Why would you think that fina only would reduce your estrogen to nil? I would expect a decrease but not significant.
Just for information purposes Andy, the surgery is not that bad and insurance will usually cover it. I would (and did) try everything you can before opting for the surgery though


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Andy13
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07/02/2020 1:32 pm  
Posted by: Bilter
nolva does not reduce estrogen levels, it is a SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator). It blocks estrogen receptors in tissue so that the estrogen has not place to bind. Why would you think that fina only would reduce your estrogen to nil? I would expect a decrease but not significant.
Just for information purposes Andy, the surgery is not that bad and insurance will usually cover it. I would (and did) try everything you can before opting for the surgery though

I'm leaning that way (surgery). If I do the "direct incision" method (as opposed to lipo) WITH a local anesthetic, it will cost me $2200

As far as nolva, I'm aware of its basic function. I would expect my estrogen levels to drop off the map during fina because 1) it does not convert to estrogen and 2) it suppresses natural T.

With no T to aromatise, how could there be any estrogen?


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Bilter
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07/02/2020 1:50 pm  
Posted by: Andy13
I
With no T to aromatise, how could there be any estrogen?

you are assuming that the only reason estrogen is in your system is due to the aromitization of test. I do not believe that to be the case (I would have to research it to be sure, I will have to look into this..... curiosity is killing me now)


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Andy13
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07/02/2020 2:15 pm  
Posted by: Bilter
you are assuming that the only reason estrogen is in your system is due to the aromitization of test. I do not believe that to be the case (I would have to research it to be sure, I will have to look into this..... curiosity is killing me now)

Estrogen comes from aromatization of either Testosterone or androstendione. The question is, does exogenous AAS suppress the production of androstendione as well? I would think the production of androstendione would be inhibited during fina treatment.. but I'm not sure.


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rhinofight
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07/02/2020 2:37 pm  

I can say one thing. I had gyno during the first half of my cycle because I was on test and started my letro late. Neither nolva(40mg/day) nor letro(2.5mg/day) did anything for the gyno. I had puffy sore nipples with hard disks/lumps behind them and I was worried. I knew it took time for blood levels of letro to stabilize and all that, so I was hoping for the best. Then I started masteron @ 100mg EOD and reduced my letro to 1.25mg ED. No more puffy sore nipples and my gyno has almost completely reversed!


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ex_banana-eater
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07/02/2020 3:08 pm  

I can't find gyno surgery for under $3500ish. You can either wait on a waitlist four years where I live for public health care surgery, or pay up front with no insurance coverage at a plastic surgeon.

I'm gonna be in Thailand so I'll try a course of letro + nolva while losing fat. Probably hard to get masteron but I'd like to try it.


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Neuromancer
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07/02/2020 3:33 pm  
Posted by: jboldman
Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. slawrence@cheo.on.ca

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifen in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia. STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene). RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients. CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

I thank you sir!


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