Epo Cycles?  

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39x23
(@39x23)
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18/10/2018 9:56 am  

Any thoughts on cycle duration/frequency with epo? Can it be safely used for a 6-8 month cycle, keeping hct 49ish? Say 6-8 months "on" 4-6 months "off". Anyone aware of any long term side effects? Thanks for any input


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LargeMarge
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18/10/2018 10:29 am  

I havent seen/found any studies at that length of time. I know from others, that have had great experience and success, that shorter cycles are mainstream thinking. Heres a study I found searching this site:

Effects of prolonged low doses of recombinant human erythropoietin during submaximal and maximal exercise

Gabrielle Russell, Christopher J. Gore, Michael J. Ashenden, Robin Parisotto, Allan G. Hahn

A1 Department of Physiology, Australian Institute of Sport, P.O. Box 176, Belconnen ACT 2616, Australia
A2 Department of Physiology, Australian Institute of Sport, Canberra, Australia

Abstract:

Abstract. The aim of this study was to characterise the effect of prolonged low doses of recombinant erythropoietin (r-HuEPO) on the responses to submaximal and maximal exercise. Volunteer recreational athletes (n=21) were divided into three groups: r-HuEPO+intravenous iron (EPO+IV, n=7), r-HuEPO+oral iron (EPO+OR, n=9) and placebo (n=5). During the 12 week study, r-HuEPO or saline injections were given three times a week for the first 8 weeks and for the final 4 weeks the subjects were monitored but no injections were administered. The r-HuEPO doses were 50 IU�kg-1 body mass for 3 weeks and 20 IU�kg-1 body mass for the next 5 weeks. An exercise test comprising three submaximal intensities and then increments to elicit maximal aerobic power ($$\dot V{\rm O}_{{\rm 2max}} $$ ) was conducted during weeks 0, 4, 8 and 12. During week 0, the mean intensity of the submaximal stages was 60%, 72% and 81% $$\dot V{\rm O}_{{\rm 2max}} $$ . Blood taken at rest was analysed twice a week for haematocrit (Hct). The relative increases in $$\dot V{\rm O}_{{\rm 2max}} $$ at weeks 4, 8 and 12 were 7.7%, 9.7% and 4.5%, respectively, for the EPO+IV group; 6.0%, 4.7% and 3.1% for the EPO+OR group; and -0.5%, -0.1% and -1.0% for the placebo group, where the improvements at week 12 for the EPO+IV and EPO+OR groups remained significantly above week 0 values. The Hct was significantly elevated by 0.06 and 0.07 units at week 3 in the EPO+IV and EPO+OR groups, respectively, and was stable during the 5 weeks of low-dose r-HuEPO. After 8 weeks of r-HuEPO use, plasma lactate concentration tended to be lower at exercise intensities ranging from 60% to 100% $$\dot V{\rm O}_{{\rm 2max}} $$ . This study confirmed the ability of low doses of r-HuEPO to maintain Hct and $$\dot V{\rm O}_{{\rm 2max}} $$ at elevated levels.


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39x23
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18/10/2018 11:23 am  

Thanks, got that one.

I am concerned about secondary anemia after cessation of rhepo cycle. The following study shows a large decrease in reticulocyte production about two weeks after a cycle

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/do...25.1996.41911.x


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madtrack
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18/10/2018 12:14 pm  

If u continue with fe after cessation of E you should not get secondary anaemia.(I have had it from stopping fe too soon after course of E,I would,nt wish that on anybody--except maybe Dick Pound.)M/track


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Slim
 Slim
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18/10/2018 1:07 pm  

Is the iron an oral suppliment. What dose do you take and do you monitor your blood for iron?


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madtrack
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18/10/2018 1:41 pm  

I use oral approx.200mg elemental iron p/d. you get ur iron levels and stores tested B4 E. cycle. M/track


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39x23
(@39x23)
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18/10/2018 2:38 pm  
Posted by: madtrack
I use oral approx.200mg elemental iron p/d. you get ur iron levels and stores tested B4 E. cycle. M/track

M/T, what type of iron do you use? It appears that 50mg of iron bisglycinate ( ferrochel ) would be as effective as 200mg of other irons (fumarate, sulfate, citrate). It also appears to be safe at that daily dose. I am constantly f**king with how much iron I should be taking and I dont want to run and get a blood test every 5 days, so I am hoping this is the ticket.

-------

Relative effectiveness of iron bis-glycinate chelate (Ferrochel) and ferrous sulfate in the control of iron deficiency in pregnant women.Szarfarc SC, de Cassana LM, Fujimori E, Guerra-Shinohara EM, de Oliveira IM.
Sao Paulo University, Sao Paulo, Brazil.

The relative effectiveness of daily supplementation of iron deficiency during pregnancy using 15 mg/day of iron from iron-bis-glycinate chelate (71 pregnant women), or 40 mg iron from ferrous sulfate (74 pregnant women) was evaluated by measuring hemoglobin, transferrin saturation and serum ferritin, at the beginning of the study (< 20 weeks of pregnancy) and at 20-30 weeks and 30-40 weeks thereafter. Ingestion for 13 weeks or more was considered adequate. Seventy three percent of the Ferrochel consuming group and 35% of the ferrous sulfate consuming group were considered to have taken the treatment adequately. The decrease in levels of all the measured parameters was significantly less pronounced in the group that consumed Ferrochel in spite of the lower treatment dose. Iron depletion was found in 30.8% of the women treated with Ferrochel and in 54.5% of the women than consumed ferrous sulfate. Of the factors responsible for non compliance taste was reported in 29.8% of the ferrous sulfate consumers and none in the groups that consumed Ferrochel. It is concluded that daily supplementation with Ferrochel was significantly more effective, in spite of the lower dose, than supplementation with ferrous sulfate.

also -----

http://www.albion-an.com/human/Newsletter/1996February.pdf#search=%22albion%20ferrochel%2 2" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> http://www.albion-an.com/human/News...%20ferrochel%22

fwiw


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madtrack
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18/10/2018 3:38 pm  

Yes I heard of chelated iron;never tried it tho.there are alot of dodgy iron supps out there that dont work ,I may give chelated a try .I use an expensive chewable elemental iron 2 x 100mg tabs at night with 3.0gmm of vit C for absorbtion. The expensive irons are better for intestine as iron can give probs there. Alo Vit E should be taken (if at all) long after iron as it stops iron absorbtion. Best to get iron stores checked B4 cycle u will know then approx how much to take .U may have to use for 3 weeks B4 u start E. or levels could be ok ,then just use 200mg p/d(I start 2 weeks B4 cycle) and check Hb and Hct levels thru cycle and after wards --low Hb will prob. mean u need iron. I have never c hecked iron levels during cycle. Note; 300mg ferrous sulphate is equivalent to only 60mg of Elemental Iron. M/track


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