Hi, any recommandations to inject epo IV?
It is not worth it unless u are regularly tested,IV must be slow 2 mins for 3kiu rediject ,too quick will cause probs,never inject E rediject if it is not in original syringe some do not have preservative,so can be dangerous.The effect of IV(which most pros use )is quicker in(also kicks in quicker) quicker out.IV is also supposed to be better cos the E has 40% more bio-avaliability(according to manufacturers)I have not found this (nor have any other riders i know)I have done long term both SQ and IV.SQ being the prefered method;also if u make a F.U. with an IV shot u will be left with a big bruise on ur forearm and u have to talk ur way out of that one if it happens more than once or twice! M/track
so track...are we looking at the same increase in RBC's whether IV or Subq.....just one is longer lasting and shorter acting...and the other is fast-acting and gone quicker?
Train Hard, Fight Hard, Party Hard
Well in my (and other riders I know that use E) opinion yes;but according to manufacturers IV has 40% more bio-avaliability so theoreticaly it means it should also have more efficiacy;but in practice ,this is not so. M/track
good to know...thanks track
Train Hard, Fight Hard, Party Hard
Hello madtrack, you are very helpful as usual, thank you very much. I would like to get to a target hematocrit before the season begins, and after that maintain with a dose 1 time a week of epo IV because as we know time of detection of this method is only 3 days.
I could be tested, so I don't want to take a risk. But, when you say to inject too quick would cause problems, what kind of problems are you talking about ? Although, is it possible to do the injection in the foot area, as when I control my hematocrit?
The inj should be slow ie 2mins is very safe I beleive it can clot if inj too quickly.I have used IV many times and never had a prob.I always inj forearm as veins are large,never tried feet.I have used micro-dosing 500kiu-750kiu at night E/D IV and always been ok ur once a week method is good.One thing to remember if u micro-dose DO NOT split rediject into a vial for multi dosing it has no preservative and can cause probs.It is best to get E already in multi-dose vial as it has preservative. M/track
Ok, I think I will try the one time a week method... I don't need to micro dose because I could only be tested on the weekend when I race, so I will try a maintenance dose IV between the previous race and the next, and at least 3 days before the next race.
When you microdose, do you use the same rediject syringe several times?
Does someone use the method with the enzymes to avoid detection of epo in the urine? Do you know where to get these enzymes?
[i].One thing to remember if u micro-dose DO NOT split rediject into a vial for multi dosing it has no preservative and can cause probs.It is best to get E already in multi-dose vial as it has preservative. M/track [/B]
so if i am micro dosing, or doing maint. by sq inj. can i just use what i need,and then reuse rediject at next dose? i would not aspirate to avoid contamination.
A rediject has no preservative so u should only use once otherwise u will get a reaction ie SQ a lump and irritation at inj.site.or worse.I have heard that some decant rediject into vial and then add bacteriostat water as a preserv.I have not tried it ---does any one have any info on this,u have to be careful with E as it can become useless if mixed with other substances.Never inject a pre-used rediject IV.U can get E in multi dose vials these are OK 4 multi/micro doses. I have never used any enzyme masking agent.If u use E correctly u wont test pos.obviously this does not apply to aranesp(darpotein-alfa) which is the popular drug in Europe at the moment,enzymes would be useful with nesp.as it has a longer clearing time. M/track
A rediject has no preservative so u should only use once otherwise u will get a reaction ie SQ a lump and irritation at inj.site.or worse...
This is definitely a possibility. However, I have used the same Shandong-Kexing rediject up to three times (2000iu/dose), injecting SC. I would estimate that in 2006 I re-used redijects 3-4x/week for upwards of three months, w/o infecting myself or otherwise damaging the sc layer of skin. SO anecdotally at least it is possible, though risky, and no doctor or pharmacist would ever recommend this action. Also, my teammates were following the same plan, more or less, doing the same thing (reusing redijects). It was funny, we would have to put masking tape on the syringes, which were all stored at the same location in one container, to label our syringes so we wouldn't confuse them.
Funny story - one time we had u100 insulin syringes filled w/ pot belge. They were being stored in a different location that 3 or 4 of us had access to (out of a team of 15). One guy on the team was a total dick, such a dick, in fact, that even though he had his own apt., he would demand that we hide his product in our stash. So one time he left a bot belge syringe with our kit. The group of us in that location were out-of-favor with management at that particular moment, and we weren't getting the rocket fuel for use in races where there wasn't control. But the rider who was a dick was on the program. So we nicked his bot belge syringe, emptied the contents into a different syringe, and replaced his with sterile water.
We partitioned the stolen pot belge amongst the four of us, loaded it up into cut-down 33unit insulin syringes and were good to go for that race. Our dick teammate had his entire 100unit syringe that he intended to shoot at the race (this is mid-race injecting we're talking about).
He was such a bastard.
Anyway, the four of us, with our race gas in our pockets were prepped, and at the crucial moment we hit the juice and easily made the splits and one of us won (obviously not me, but I don't remember who). However, the dick teammate was no where, like he finished in the third or fourth group, all of us laughing our asses off b/c we watched him injecting his water, all the time he was thinking that it was the race gas, and he had this puzzled look on his face like, "Why am I not going faster????"
After the race, it was congratulations all around amongst the four of us, while dick teammate couldn't get over the failure of his engine to ignite. That night he was demanding of the director that his quantity of allocated fuel be doubled, because he claimed that his tolerance had increased to the point of his needing super human doses!
The belge used to do that much for you eh? Always heard stories about it. Mid-race injecting...does it still go on? how does one get away with it during a televised race (just wait for the TV crews to dissappear I guess). You'd have to go sub-Q with a rediject yeah?
Injecting mid-race...now that's some serious shit!
How long would it take to kick in? I've read about it but never really knew what the hell was in there. What was it exactly, or did they just hand them out without telling you guys anything about it?
Sorry Im from the South... have heard of this but what the F is a belge... a mixture of what ?