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Time period in which exogenous GH shuts down endogenous release->nandi,others PLEASE

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SWALE
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Comments noted.

ANY ADVICE I MAY GIVE DOES NOT SUBSTITUTE FOR PROPER EVALUATION BY A QUALIFIED PHYSICIAN, NOR DOES IT REPRESENT DOCTOR/PATIENT RELATIONSHIP, OR LIABILITY, IN ANY MANNER.


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DocJ
 DocJ
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^^^ Bump, great thread, thought maybe some more thoughts were out there on this subject in 2019.


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jboldman
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classic!

jb


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DocJ
 DocJ
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Here's the summary I've gathered so far:

1. If you're using a larger dose of HGH, let's say over 5iu/day, dosing 1xED at night might be more beneficial as your endo-HGH will be suppressed anyways.

2. If you're using a smaller dose, 1xED in the morning would be best as your own endo-HGH won't be supressed @ night due to the time period between the exo- and endo- release.

3. If you're stacking with insulin, 2xED dosing would be best. Morning and pwo afternoon.


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adrazor
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What if your stacking gh with igf-1?

Is it still best to administer gh eod a.m. then igf-1 PWO 4 times a week after the hardest workouts?

Or is some other protocol reccomended???

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jboldman
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i can only tell you what i do, gh eod am, igf daily prior to workout. i invite others to share their protocols and rationale.

jb


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adrazor
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I understand the a.m. gh eod...There has been some great posting on this concept lateley and I like the theory and the economy issues.

Most people suggest igf-1 Post WO to aid recovery. I was also of the inderstanding that muscles were most receptive post workout. I thought it almost had an insulin type effect and brought about a slight feeling of lethargy? This surely would have a negative effect if one were to administer pre workout?

I understand im is the way to go but have heard experianced body builders say that sq is just as effective.........

I love the idea of igf-1. I receive delivary in a few days and will report findings.

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jboldman
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i do im since it is the intra-muscular igf that makes the difference not the systemic and there is some research that local injections actually work.

*how about someone finding that study on the local injections. i am going to start moving these ladmark studies to the vault so we can access them more easily.

jb


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oswaldosalcedo
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Posted by: notatrase
SG, the reason I asked about Nolvadex is because it is known to lower IGF-1, so I am wondering if my post-cycle recovery regimen will have a negative impact on the effects of the GH.

Since I am coming off now though, SG, I take it that I should begin with taking the GH with insulin at least for the first month since I have not already begun the GH, right?
Also, are you saying Gh, by itself, could maintain my muscle mass/leanness on its own if it were already built up in my system?

Thank you, guys


Insulin can lead to sodium retention and angiotensin II�mediated aldosterone production.
People should use gh first thing in the morning (does not shut down,the endogenous release,only a few hours post administration) without slin.
GH half life around 10-30 min. Last edited by oswaldosalcedo on 05-03-2019 at 03:22 AM

dr frankenstein


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oswaldosalcedo
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Posted by: oswaldosalcedo
Insulin can lead to sodium retention and angiotensin II�mediated aldosterone production.
People should use gh first thing in the morning (does not shut down,the endogenous release,only a few hours post administration) without slin.
GH half life around 10-30 min.

It doesn't seem.
The long closed loop of the IGF peak after 24 hours.
GH is the short closed loop,there is another loop, the neural open loop.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Dec;89(12):6185-92.

Divergent effect of endogenous and exogenous sex steroids on the insulin-like growth factor I response to growth hormone in short normal adolescents.

Coutant R, de Casson FB, Rouleau S, Douay O, Mathieu E, Gatelais F, Bouhours-Nouet N, Voinot C, Audran M, Limal JM.

Department of Pediatrics, University Hospital, 49000 Angers,
France.

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 May;290(5):E1006-13.

Effects of GH and/or sex steroids on circulating IGF-I and IGFBPs in healthy, aged women and men.

Munzer T, Rosen CJ, Harman SM, Pabst KM, St Clair C, Sorkin JD, Blackman MR.

Endocrine Section, Laboratory of Clinical Investigations, National Institute on Aging, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, USA.

------------------------

exogenous GH does shut down the endogenous release.

dr frankenstein


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jboldman
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Effects of GH and/or sex steroids on circulating IGF-I and IGFBPs in healthy, aged women and men.Munzer T, Rosen CJ, Harman SM, Pabst KM, St Clair C, Sorkin JD, Blackman MR.
Endocrine Section, Laboratory of Clinical Investigations, National Institute on Aging, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD, USA.

Circulating GH, IGF-I, IGFBP-3, and sex steroid concentrations decrease with age. GH or sex steroid treatment increases IGFBP-3, but little is known regarding the effects of these hormones on other IGFBPs. We assessed the effects of 26 wk of administration of GH, sex steroids, or GH + sex steroids on AM levels of IGF-I, IGFBPs 1-5, insulin, glucose, and osteocalcin and 2-h urinary excretion of deoxypyridinolline (DPD) cross-links in 53 women and 71 men aged 65-88 yr. Before treatment, in women and men, IGF-I was directly related to IGFBP-3 (P < 0.001 and P < 0.0001) and IGFBP-1 to IGFBP-2 (P = 0.0001). In women, IGFBP-1 was inversely related to insulin (P < 0.0005) and glucose (P < 0.005) and IGFBP-4 to osteocalcin (P < 0.01). IGFBP-4 and IGFBP-5 were not significantly related to DPD cross-links. GH and/or sex steroid increased IGF-I levels in both sexes, with higher concentrations in men (P < 0.001). In women, the IGF-I increment after GH was attenuated by hormone replacement therapy (HRT) coadministration (P < 0.05). Hormone administration also increased IGFBP-3. IGFBP-1 was unaffected by GH + sex steroids, whereas GH decreased IGFBP-2 by 15% in men (P < 0.05). Hormone administration did not change IGFBP-4, whereas in men IGFBP-5 increased by 20% after GH (P < 0.05) and 56% after GH + Testosterone(P = 0.0003). These data demonstrate sexually dimorphic IGFBP responses to GH. Additionally, HRT attenuated or prevented GH-mediated increases in IGF-I and IGFBP-3. Whether GH and/or sex steroid administration alters local tissue production of IGFBPs and whether the latter influence autocrine or paracrine actions of IGF-I remain to be determined.


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jboldman
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show us.

jb


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Badlands
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quote:


[i]Originally posted by jboldman ..... HRT attenuated or prevented GH-mediated increases in IGF-I and IGFBP-3. Whether GH and/or sex steroid administration alters local tissue production of IGFBPs and whether the latter influence autocrine or paracrine actions of IGF-I remain to be determined. [/B]


So HRT (Testosterone Therapy) limits IGF-1 production???

Even with exogenous GH administration???


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guijr
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My IGF-1 is higher since I started TRT.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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jboldman
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i think that they were saying in the absence of physio levels of test the igf response is greater.

jb


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