Fluoxymesterone's effect on HDL cholesterol  

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HitMeBack
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22/10/2018 12:39 pm  

Does anyone know if fluoxymesterone lowers HDL to the same extent as oxandrolone?
Thanks.

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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 1:15 pm  

quote:


J Dial. 1977;1(4):357-66. Related Articles, Links

Fluoxymesterone therapy in anemia of patients on maintenance hemodialysis: comparison between patients with kidneys and anephric patients.

Acchiardo SR, Black WD.

Nineteen patients with their kidneys and 11 anephric patients who were stable on maintenance hemodialysis received 20 mg a day of Fluoxymesterone. At the end of four months, there was a significant increase (p less than 0.005) in the mean hematocrit with a parallel increase in the hemoglobin level in both groups of patients. Concomitantly, we observed an increment of the red cell mass that was significant at the level of p less than 0.05. Blood transfusion requirements decreased significantly (p less than 0.1), independent of the presence or absence of kidneys. No changes in body weight, serum albumin, and serum cholesterol levels were observed. Secondary effects were hirsutism and hoarsening of the voice.


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HitMeBack
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22/10/2018 2:01 pm  

Thanks for that Big Cat. If the liver toxicity of halo can be reduced e.g. with sublingual delivery, it would appear that halo would be an excellent AAS for endurance, sprint and power athletes to use.
It does not have an adverse effect on cholesterol levels, it does not upregulate the glucocorticoid receptors, it increases hematocrit and hemoglobin levels, it increases neural drive due to its strong androgen characteristics and significantly increases muscular strength without a concomitant increase in body weight.
Is there any other oral AAS that has all of the above characteristics?


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ready2explode
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22/10/2018 2:57 pm  

Serum cholesterol levels refers to total cholesterol, correct BC?

If it refers to HDL levels, how could such a strong non-aromatizing androgen have no effect?

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 3:36 pm  
Posted by: ready2explode
Serum cholesterol levels refers to total cholesterol, correct BC?

If it refers to HDL levels, how could such a strong non-aromatizing androgen have no effect?

Fluoxymesterone isn't a strong androgen at all, its a rather weak androgen. All the characteristics it causes that some consider synonymous with androgenic effect, are in fact the result of glucocorticoid deprivation since fluoxymesterone is both a potent GR antagonist and 11bHSD blocker. Increases in agression, red blood cell count and appetite are all a result of this.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 4:33 pm  
Posted by: HitMeBack
Thanks for that Big Cat. If the liver toxicity of halo can be reduced e.g. with sublingual delivery, it would appear that halo would be an excellent AAS for endurance, sprint and power athletes to use.
It does not have an adverse effect on cholesterol levels, it does not upregulate the glucocorticoid receptors, it increases hematocrit and hemoglobin levels, it increases neural drive due to its strong androgen characteristics and significantly increases muscular strength without a concomitant increase in body weight.
Is there any other oral AAS that has all of the above characteristics?

No, that's because in many ways you shouldn't classify it as an AAS its more specifically a glucocorticoid blocker. It will lean you out, increase oxidative (endurance) capacity, increase appetite and won't cause many androgenic side-effects. Some androgenic risk is still associated with use due to target tissue 5-alpha reduction. A fluoxymesterone with a 1,2 double bond would not suffer this problem, and have even higher affinity for the glucocorticoid receptor.

I have experimented with an analog that has the 1,2 double bond and a 16-alpha-methyl. This possesses no androgenic effects at all anymore. But users stop after less than 2 weeks on 10 mg due to symptoms associated with glucocorticoid deprivation.

Fluoxymesterone is a great steroid, its sad it has become so hard to find on the international market. For cutting a combination with high dose boldenone and moderate dose trenbolone will work wonders.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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ready2explode
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22/10/2018 5:55 pm  

Mr. Roberts is pretty far off then:

If you�re anything like me, the first thing you�ll notice is Halotestin�s absurd Anabolic and Androgenic rating. This stuff is 19x as anabolic as Testosterone and 8.5x as androgenic! Whoa! I have to admit, those numbers are a bit deceiving, and through personal experience, I can say that Halotestin will not put anywhere near as much muscle on you as testosterone.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Admin

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 6:35 pm  
Posted by: ready2explode
Mr. Roberts is pretty far off then:

If you�re anything like me, the first thing you�ll notice is Halotestin�s absurd Anabolic and Androgenic rating. This stuff is 19x as anabolic as testosterone and 8.5x as androgenic! Whoa! I have to admit, those numbers are a bit deceiving, and through personal experience, I can say that Halotestin will not put anywhere near as much muscle on you as testosterone.

That's because of the sheer ludicracy of trusting numbers from vida based on levator ani against ventral prostate weight in rats ... I think we've all chuckled a great deal at those numbers in the past.

The levator ani is an androgen dependent organ, with much lower threshold for androgen activity, and in no way reflects the anabolic potency of a compound in skeletal muscle. The ventral prostate in turn is no model for skin, scalp, etc. The rat AR, as well as expression levels of co-regulators differ from those in humans as well. In short, those numbers come as close to the truth as the pope to a gay convention.

I'm probably going to publish a rewritten excerpt from the book on differential effects of anabolics soon. That will probably explain it better.

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Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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ready2explode
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22/10/2018 7:11 pm  

quote:


LOL BC, keep in mind that the rest of us are not just one, but a few steps behind ya!

Thanks for the info on the androgenic ratios, but still...it doesn't surprise you that var stomps HDL levels through the floor, but halo doesn't?


Not really, we know Var to be very resistent to metabolism and clearance, It could very well be it is an avid AR binder in vivo with a very distinct activation profile.

It certainly doesn't surprise that it has more drastic effects on cholesterol than Halo. That they are this drastic compared to other steroids is unusual, but the Var has always been one of those unusual drugs.

quote:


Also, how would you decide how androgenic a certain steroid is without judging based "on levator ani against ventral prostate weight in rats"?

I can't wait for this book to get out...hurry your ass up BC


Truth be told, you can't really. It would be hard to have a quantifiable model with regards to the tissues and issues we have with androgenic nature, such as development of acne and hair loss (hard to quantify, no in vitro or animal model to do it on) and prostate issues are even worse. Prostate seems to be regulated by so many different factors that you simply can't take any change in prostatic tissue, especially if it were malignant like most cell lines, and say that an event that will occur in under standardized circumstance will occur in a same degree in vivo for a diverse group of humans.

In healthy young men acute side effects are rather exception than rule as well, making it even harder because we are basing our concept of androgenicity on threshold appearances.

You will be baffled by the amount of information in the book you didn't know yet, but don't get your hopes up, it all leads to one inevitable conclusion : We can say a whole lot about what certain androgens don't do, but not how they do what they do.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 8:31 pm  

Crap, sorry R2E, I clicked edit instead of quote and inadvertently replied in your own post. I apologize.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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ready2explode
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22/10/2018 9:27 pm  

Thanks, BC.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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epote
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22/10/2018 10:14 pm  

quote:


Fluoxymesterone isn't a strong androgen at all, its a rather weak androgen. All the characteristics it causes that some consider synonymous with androgenic effect, are in fact the result of glucocorticoid deprivation since fluoxymesterone is both a potent GR antagonist and 11bHSD blocker. Increases in agression, red blood cell count and appetite are all a result of this.


dude, thats some solid info there.

a)that sould be the tone of the book. No more easy to read stuf, there enough of those "Dbol makes bitch tits and water gain", time for the good science

b)could you guide me in some documentation about receptor biology etc?

thanks BC

"tiss a visitor i muttered
knokcing on my chamber door
only this and nothing more"


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 10:56 pm  
Posted by: epote
dude, thats some solid info there.

a)that sould be the tone of the book. No more easy to read stuf, there enough of those "dbol makes bitch tits and water gain", time for the good science

b)could you guide me in some documentation about receptor biology etc?

thanks BC

Yeah sure, as soon as I finish the rewrite of the differential effects piece, I will send you a few of the studies I frequently use if you like. They are pretty lengthy and thorough.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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epote
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22/10/2018 11:27 pm  

quote:


Yeah sure, as soon as I finish the rewrite of the differential effects piece, I will send you a few of the studies I frequently use if you like. They are pretty lengthy and thorough.


that would excelent, thanks a lot

"tiss a visitor i muttered
knokcing on my chamber door
only this and nothing more"


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Big Cat
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22/10/2018 11:58 pm  

In the mean time check out Nursa.org. They have a great little sort of animated slide show that explains the basic things real well. Takes about 20-30 minutes to completely view it, and I highly recommend it. Its simple, visual, and despite its simplicity not dumbed down to the point where its laughably simple or inaccurate.

Good things come to those who weight.

The Big Cat is a researcher and theoreticist. His advice must never be taken in the stead of proper advice from a medical professional, it is entirely intended for research purposes.


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