Help for a new beginner?  

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RaetherEnt
(@raetherent)
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09/07/2019 7:48 am  

Hi Everyone!

First let me say that after months of lurking the internet forums for an answer to this question, I decided to post it here. It seems like you folks are the most knowledgeable and friendly group I have seen. KUDOS! And thanks in advance!

I'm a 36 year old male who just a few months ago decided to get back into shape. I'm 5'11" and had ballooned up to 225, not muscle, mind you.

After I got out of Ranger school and the Army back in 04 I started to work out very hard. I started at 135 pounds (with a bench press max of about the same!) and about 10% bodyfat, and in a matter of about 18 months had pumped up to about 210 pounds with a bench of 340. Shortly thereafter, I went off to college...
Drinking, smoking, eating like SH*T. 15 years later, I found myself in the position I was four months ago.

SO, one day not too long ago I decided enough was enough. I quit smoking cold turkey, haven't had even a single beer, and have been working out 4 days a week religiously, with cardio a minimum 4, but usually 5 days a week as well. For now I think I have my diet really dialed in, and it's actually amazed me how quickly the gains I made 15 years ago have come back. I've gained almost twenty pounds of muscle and my abs are actually starting to show again! WOO HOOO!!!

Thats the background, here's the question. Hypothetically, I've run into 200 10mg tabs of Dbol, and 200 5mg tabs of Var. Shortly I will have some Nolvadex. Could anyone give me a recommendation of how I would best run this little 8 week cycle?

I had blood work done a few weeks ago, Doc says the liver is great and my BP has always been 120/80 like clockwork, even when out of shape.

Sorry to make this post so long, but I have noticed when lots of people ask for advice, it's easier to give when there is some background.

Thanks again! All feedback will be greatly appreciated!

PS...I'm definately also planning on using some milk thistle for liver protection, but how much? Dosages?


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Bilter
(@bilter)
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09/07/2019 8:07 am  

forget what you have on hand (hypothetically). First off I am not a fan of running 2 orals at the same time, running orals more than 4 weeks, or running orals. Better off with just some plain old test for 8-10 weeks. BUT, I would wait until you have been back into training for at least 1 year. You can make great gains by continueing what you are doing now


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ready2explode
(@ready2explode)
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09/07/2019 8:37 am  

I'm not a fan of orals whatsoever.

Even if I was, Testosterone would still be what I would recommend to use for a first timer. 500mgs a week for 10 weeks.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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09/07/2019 8:57 am  

I agree with the above train naturally for awhile then go with inject test. You arn't going to retain any gains from the orals anyhow.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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bear
 bear
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09/07/2019 9:19 am  

20 lbs in four months natural, and at 36... abs already, after only 4 months...? Well done!

The advice you have already been given (Testosterone!) is good advice. I'd go with 750 mg/week of either T cypionate or T enanthate along with 20 mg/day of the nolva that you have on order. If I had Anastrozole or letrozole (easy to find,) I'd bump that to at least 1000 mg/wk. I'd do that for a good 12 weeks.

And don't let those orals go to waste. They are not very useful on their own, but 50mg/day (5 divided doses) of D-bol or 60-80 mg/day of Var (3 divided doses) will fill out the cycle nicely. Given ther amounts you have on hand, I'd do D-bol for the first 40 days of the cycle, and finish with the var during weeks 13 and 14, as the TE/TC is clearing, so that you can begin PCT in week 15.

You may also want to look at HCG, either as an ongoing thing from day-one (500iu twice/wk weeks 1-14 is reasonable) or as a cycle-ending protocol (500IU eod in weeks 12-14 only is reasonable.) Lots of different opinions in this regard, and many different HCG dosages/plans will be recommended to you; mine is just one possible option.

And don't skimp on the Nolva in PCT (or its duration; IMO, the longer, the better.)

Good luck!


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HitMeBack
(@hitmeback)
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09/07/2019 9:39 am  

Didn't BC say that orals shouldn't be taken in divided doses, just once a day? Can't remember the reason for this. Anyone know?


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ready2explode
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09/07/2019 9:58 am  
Posted by: HitMeBack
Didn't BC say that orals shouldn't be taken in divided doses, just once a day? Can't remember the reason for this. Anyone know?

Only if the dose was small...larger doses can be divided.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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ready2explode
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09/07/2019 10:16 am  
Posted by: bear
20 lbs in four months natural, and at 36... abs already, after only 4 months...? Well done!

The advice you have already been given (Testosterone!) is good advice. I'd go with 750 mg/week of either T cypionate or T enanthate along with 20 mg/day of the Nolva that you have on order. If I had Anastrozole or letrozole (easy to find,) I'd bump that to at least 1000 mg/wk. I'd do that for a good 12 weeks.

And don't let those orals go to waste. They are not very useful on their own, but 50mg/day (5 divided doses) of D-bol or 60-80 mg/day of Var (3 divided doses) will fill out the cycle nicely. Given ther amounts you have on hand, I'd do D-bol for the first 40 days of the cycle, and finish with the var during weeks 13 and 14, as the TE/TC is clearing, so that you can begin PCT in week 15.

You may also want to look at HCG, either as an ongoing thing from day-one (500iu twice/wk weeks 1-14 is reasonable) or as a cycle-ending protocol (500IU eod in weeks 12-14 only is reasonable.) Lots of different opinions in this regard, and many different HCG dosages/plans will be recommended to you; mine is just one possible option.

And don't skimp on the Nolva in PCT (or its duration; IMO, the longer, the better.)

Good luck!

Unless I missed something, which I tend to do, this is the poster's first cycle. Therefore, let him slide into things a bit easier. He should test the waters a bit prior to diving right in. Just my opinion...

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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bear
 bear
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09/07/2019 10:46 am  
Posted by: ready2explode
Unless I missed something, which I tend to do, this is the poster's first cycle. Therefore, let him slide into things a bit easier. He should test the waters a bit prior to diving right in. Just my opinion...

Well, it sounded as though he's pretty much set on doing a cycle, one way or another. My philosophy is, if you are going to do something like AAS, you may as well do it in such a way as to get substantial results.

Although, you could very well be right about lower doses being adequate in this case: logically, there should be a limit to how much muscle one can synthesize over any given period of time, and given that it is his first cycle, this poster might just reach that limit at lower doses (e.g. 500mg/wk?)

****************************
HitMeBack, I hadn't run accross BC's stated preference for single-dose orals. Intuitively, it makes more sense to me to divide doses to correspond more closely with half-lives, keeping serum levels more even. It's how I've always done it. But if BC thinks otherwise, I stand corrected.


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liftsiron
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09/07/2019 11:07 am  

It makes sense for a beginner to start at a lower dose of a single ester test to see how his body is going to react to the drug...not pump in a gram of test w/o any idea of what may happen and hope for the best.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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ready2explode
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09/07/2019 11:24 am  
Posted by: bear
Well, it sounded as though he's pretty much set on doing a cycle, one way or another. My philosophy is, if you are going to do something like AAS, you may as well do it in such a way as to get substantial results.

While I agree to a certain extent (which I'm sure has much to do about my age), I still think one should take it slow on a first cycle with a new compound. After that, he can do as he pleases. At least he'll know a bit more of what to expect in terms of sides.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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Zircon
(@zircon)
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09/07/2019 11:54 am  

500mg 10 weeks is a pretty good middle ground.

Good results, fairly safe and not too bad on the health.

]
Just hope he doesn't egt acne like I did. But otherwise I'd say go with that.

If want to can add prop 3 weeks in the start at 100mg eod. And finish off as well.


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HitMeBack
(@hitmeback)
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09/07/2019 12:16 pm  

Do you really think 500mg is not too much for a beginner? I know that people all over the net say that 500mg/week is a good starting dose, but imo, it's too high. I think a beginner would be pretty happy with the results from 250-300mg/week. Dose can always be increased in future cycles.


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liftsiron
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09/07/2019 12:40 pm  
Posted by: HitMeBack
Do you really think 500mg is not too much for a beginner? I know that people all over the net say that 500mg/week is a good starting dose, but imo, it's too high. I think a beginner would be pretty happy with the results from 250-300mg/week. Dose can always be increased in future cycles.

Now we go from one extreme to the other, ultra high dose suggestions to a barely effective dose suggestion. 500mgs per week is a tried and true effective dose for a first cycle with minimal sides.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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HitMeBack
(@hitmeback)
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09/07/2019 1:06 pm  

I would hardly say 250-300mg of test/week is a barely effective dose!


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