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RaetherEnt
(@raetherent)
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09/07/2019 1:07 pm  

Awesome guys! Thanks for all the info so far. I didn't want to reply to early and end the discussion, because I definately like everyones opinion!

I was more or less dead set on doing the oral only cycle, (only because hypothetically, that's all I had) however, after reading your posts, I have definately reconsidered.

Therefore, for the time being, the search begins...

Thanks again all! I will continue to monitor this post and the board for even more advice!


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Posts: 408
09/07/2019 1:34 pm  
Posted by: HitMeBack
I would hardly say 250-300mg of test/week is a barely effective dose!

Depends if you're using it for hrt or intend to add muscle mass.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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oswaldosalcedo
(@oswaldosalcedo)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 234
09/07/2019 2:05 pm  
Posted by: RaetherEnt
Awesome guys! Thanks for all the info so far. I didn't want to reply to early and end the discussion, because I definately like everyones opinion!

I was more or less dead set on doing the oral only cycle, (only because hypothetically, that's all I had) however, after reading your posts, I have definately reconsidered.

Therefore, for the time being, the search begins...

Thanks again all! I will continue to monitor this post and the board for even more advice!

i have done Stanozolol and methandrostenolone oral cycles
with good maintenance.
i take all the dose at once 6:00 am to curtail the cortisol and as well as less HPA deregulation.

dr frankenstein


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Posts: 408
09/07/2019 2:25 pm  
Posted by: oswaldosalcedo
i have done stanozolol and methandrostenolone oral cycles
with good maintenance.
i take all the dose at once 6:00 am to curtail the cortisol and as well as less HPA deregulation.

This is more non-sense taking orals at 6:00 am has no less htpa downregulation than 3:00p.m.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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oswaldosalcedo
(@oswaldosalcedo)
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09/07/2019 2:54 pm  
Posted by: liftsiron
This is more non-sense taking orals at 6:00 am has no less htpa downregulation than 3:00p.m.

less continous time on receptors.
i said deregulation and hpa (hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenals).
stano and metha are fast acting 6-8 hours active life.

lab blood test verify.

tsh
t4
crh
acth
cortisol.

dr frankenstein


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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09/07/2019 3:10 pm  
Posted by: oswaldosalcedo
less continous time on receptors.
i said deregulation and hpa (hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenals).
stano and metha and fast acting 6-8 hours active life.

lab blood test verify.

tsh
t4
crh
acth
cortisol.

AR Receptors renew every several hours as it is. This theory was stipulated very strongly accross the boards several years ago and had a large following but since has been proven to be faulty.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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ready2explode
(@ready2explode)
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Posts: 304
09/07/2019 3:39 pm  
Posted by: HitMeBack
Do you really think 500mg is not too much for a beginner? I know that people all over the net say that 500mg/week is a good starting dose, but imo, it's too high. I think a beginner would be pretty happy with the results from 250-300mg/week. Dose can always be increased in future cycles.

If we're going to begin nitpicking, then we can end the discussion by going to the studies. There is an often quoted study on this board where 600mgs of test was used for 20 weeks with no side effects that weren't reversed upon cessation. Furthermore, 600mgs gave greater gains than 300mgs. So technically, it would be safe to assume the poster could use 600mgs without a hitch. This would lead to the greatest benefit vs risk ratio.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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ready2explode
(@ready2explode)
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Posts: 304
09/07/2019 4:04 pm  

Here's a dose response study. I couldn't find the one that said sides were reversed. I'll have more time later to search.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.

Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Bhasin D, Berman N, Chen X, Yarasheski KE, Magliano L, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Bross R, Phillips J, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Storer TW.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. SBHASIN@UCLA.EDU

Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of Testosterone Enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.

"In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience."
~W.B. Prescott

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
~Albert Einstein


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oswaldosalcedo
(@oswaldosalcedo)
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Posts: 234
09/07/2019 4:23 pm  
Posted by: liftsiron
AR Receptors renew every several hours as it is. This theory was stipulated very strongly accross the boards several years ago and had a large following but since has been proven to be faulty.

androgens binds to glucocorticoid receptors too,in antagonist mode this way they deregulate hpa.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1990 Jun;22(3):331-40.

Glucocorticoid antagonism by exercise and androgenic-anabolic steroids.

Hickson RC, Czerwinski SM, Falduto MT, Young AP.

Department of Physical Education, University of Illinois, Chicago 60680.

Naunyn Schmiedebergs Arch Pharmacol. 2003 Dec;368(6):487-95.

Effects of dehydroepiandrosterone on corticosterone release in rat zona fasciculata-reticularis cells.

Chang LL, Wun WS, Ho LL, Wang PS.

Department of Chemical Engineering, Chinese Culture University, Shih-Lin, Taipei 111, Taiwan, ROC.

J Neuroendocrinol. 1996 Jun;8(6):439-47.

Androgens modulate glucocorticoid receptor mRNA, but not mineralocorticoid receptor mRNA levels, in the rat hippocampus.

Kerr JE, Beck SG, Handa RJ.

dr frankenstein


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Posts: 408
09/07/2019 4:46 pm  

D-bol and winstrol also both upregulate the GR as well which persists post cycle so where you think that you come out ahead doing an all oral cycle is beyond me.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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oswaldosalcedo
(@oswaldosalcedo)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 234
09/07/2019 5:08 pm  
Posted by: liftsiron
D-bol and winstrol also both upregulate the GR as well which persists post cycle so where you think that you come out ahead doing an all oral cycle is beyond me.

hpa deregulation.

J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1993 Oct 15;203(8):1166-9.

Adrenal insufficiency associated with long-term anabolic steroid administration in a horse.

Dowling PM, Williams MA, Clark TP.

Department of Large Animal Surgery and Medicine, College of Veterinary Medicine, Auburn University, AL 36849-5522.

Adrenal insufficiency was diagnosed in a 9-year-old American Quarter Horse gelding that had received monthly injections of stanozolol for 8 years. After the injections were abruptly discontinued, the horse developed anorexia, lethargy, weight loss, and bilateral forelimb lameness. Secondary hypoadrenocorticism was diagnosed on the basis of clinical signs, lack of high endogenous plasma ACTH concentration, and lack of cortisol response to administration of ACTH. Because the medical history did not include glucocorticoid administration, the cause was determined to be excessive administration of an anabolic steroid. Treatment consisted of physiologic glucocorticoid replacement for 9 months until adrenal function returned.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Feb;38(2):256-61.

Chronic administration of anabolic androgenic steroid alters murine thyroid function.

Fortunato RS, Marassi MP, Chaves EA, Nascimento JH, Rosenthal D, Carvalho DP.

1Endocrine Physiology Laboratory, and 2Cardiac Electrophysiology Laboratory, Carlos Chagas Filho Biophysics Institute, Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL.

-------------------------------------

that means defective functioning hpa.

-------------------------------------

by me
http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1704 7" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Fo...&threadid;=17047
post #9

thanks Nytol.
i take 60 mg of Dbol daily plus 100 mg stanozolol daily.

-------------------------------------

i am blood tested weekly, before,in and after.

dr frankenstein


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Zircon
(@zircon)
Estimable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 165
09/07/2019 5:33 pm  

holy fook!! lol 60mg dbol and 100mg winny?

And I stress abotu taking prop at 150mg for 2 weeks hahahaaaaaaaaaa


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 408
09/07/2019 5:53 pm  
Posted by: Zircon
holy fook!! lol 60mg dbol and 100mg winny?

And I stress abotu taking prop at 150mg for 2 weeks hahahaaaaaaaaaa

Pretty retarded imo!!!!

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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guijr
(@guijr)
Honorable Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 743
09/07/2019 6:11 pm  
Posted by: liftsiron
It makes sense for a beginner to start at a lower dose of a single ester test to see how his body is going to react to the drug...not pump in a gram of test w/o any idea of what may happen and hope for the best.

Could not agree more. You gotta the whole life to increase the doses. Besides that sides are dose dependent as well .

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
(@guijr)
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Posts: 743
09/07/2019 6:35 pm  
Posted by: oswaldosalcedo
i have done stanozolol and methandrostenolone oral cycles
with good maintenance.
i take all the dose at once 6:00 am to curtail the cortisol and as well as less HPA deregulation.

Maybe you may cut the cortisol but I don't think that it would do anything for HPTA downregulation.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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