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nandrolone vs test at hrt doses


jboldman
(@jboldman)
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although the study was conducted with HIV wasted individuals there might be some insights here for low dose use. nandrolone use resulted in increased lbm in comparison to test.

jb

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Effects of nandrolone decanoate compared with placebo or Testosterone on HIV-associated wasting.Gold J, Batterham MJ, Rekers H, Harms MK, Geurts TB, Helmyr PM, Silva de Mendonca J, Falleiros Carvalho LH, Panos G, Pinchera A, Aiuti F, Lee C, Horban A, Gatell J, Phanuphak P, Prasithsirikul W, Gazzard B, Bloch M, Danner SA; E-1696 Study Investigators.
The Albion Street Centre, Surry Hills, NSW, Australia.

Objectives Current research is unclear about the most effective pharmacological agents for managing the loss of weight and fat-free mass common in HIV/AIDS. The aim of this study was to compare nandrolone decanoate with placebo and testosterone. Methods The study was a multicentre randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial. Three hundred and three adult HIV-positive male patients with a weight loss of 5-15% in the last 12 months, or a body mass index of 17-19 kg/m(2), or a body cell mass/height ratio lower than 13.5 kg/m, were randomly assigned to receive nandrolone decanoate (150 mg), testosterone (250 mg) or placebo intramuscularly every 2 weeks for 12 weeks. Fat-free mass, weight, immune markers and perception of treatment were the main outcome measures. Results Treatment with nandrolone resulted in significantly greater increases in fat-free mass [mean increase 1.34 kg; 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.60; 2.08 kg] and in weight (mean increase 1.48 kg; 95% CI 0.82; 2.14 kg) compared with placebo. The mean increase in weight with nandrolone of 1.00 kg (95% CI 0.27; 1.74 kg) when compared with testosterone was significant, although the difference in fat free mass did not reach significance (mean increase 0.69 kg; 95% CI-0.13; 1.51 kg). Patient perception of benefit was significantly greater in the nandrolone group when compared with both the placebo and the testosterone groups. Conclusions Treatment with nandrolone decanoate increased body weight when compared with placebo and testosterone. Nandrolone decanoate treatment resulted in greater increases in fat-free mass than placebo and demonstrated a trend for a significant increase when compared with testosterone.


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Bilter
(@bilter)
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so we now need a healthy human lab rat....................any volenteers??
I may have to just volenteer myself......its for the good of mankind


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jboldman
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i am actually thinking about doing a cycle and checking my liver enzymes before and after to see what effect that will have (see my other nandrolone post). nandrolone has been a mainstay for many for many years. It is not more widely used because of the long dectection times.

jb


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liftsiron
(@liftsiron)
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Most non hiv hrt users are concerned with libido so test would be needed. I don't hold much faith done with very sick individuals who experiencied a big weigt loss in the last 12 mts due to severe illness. Just like the SERM and AI studies with dying elderly female cancer patients.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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MR. BMJ
(@mr-bmj)
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What test ester was used?

BMJ


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oswaldosalcedo
(@oswaldosalcedo)
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i like deca.

dr frankenstein


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guijr
(@guijr)
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I'm going to use low dose Cypionate and Deca-Durabolin very soon.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
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Posted by: MR. BMJ
What test ester was used?

BMJ

OK, here it is:

Protocol - Eligible subjects were randomized per site, with each consecutive subject recruited to receive the next study identification number from lowest to highest. For emergencies, a drug identification record was supplied to the investigator at each site. The randomization was weighted 2:1:1 with 150 subjects to receive 150 mg nandrolone decanoate, 75 to receive 250 mg testosterone (30 mg propionate, 60 mg phenylpropionate and 100 mg decanoate) and 75 to receive placebo. Each treatment was given as a 1-mL oil-based intramuscular injection in the gluteal region every fortnight. All injections were given by qualified clinical staff and compliance was confirmed by the study out-patient records and vial count. The treatment period was 12 weeks.

So they used the good and old Durateston (sustanon 250).

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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jboldman
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of course this type os study is the only one we are apt to get until laws change. It most likely is more on point that a rat study.

jb


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guijr
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Off topic but two researchers of this huge multi-center clinical trial are from Brazil:

Dr. Jo�o Silva de Mendon�a (Servi�o de Doencas Infecciosas do Hospital do Servidor P�blico Estadual, S�o Paulo, Brazil).

Dra. Luiza H. Falleiros Carvalho (Instituto Infectologia Hospital Em�lio Ribas, S�o Paulo, Brazil).

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
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Posted by: jboldman
of course this type os study is the only one we are apt to get until laws change. It most likely is more on point that a rat study.

jb

What do you mean till law changes?

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
(@guijr)
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I just found another study related to Deca:

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Strawford A, Barbieri T, Neese R, Van Loan M, Christiansen M, Hoh R, Sathyan G, Skowronski R, King J, Hellerstein M. Effects of nandrolone decanoate therapy in borderline hypogonadal men with HIV-associated weight loss. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr Hum Retrovirol. 1999;20(2):137-46.

ABSTRACT

Serum testosterone concentrations are frequently in the low-normal range (lowest quartile, <500 ng/dl) in men with AIDS-wasting syndrome (AWS) and in other chronic wasting disorders. The response of patients in this group to androgen treatment has not been determined, however. Eighteen men with AWS (mean +/- standard error [SE]: 87% +/- 1% usual body weight; CD4 count 90 +/- 24) and borderline low serum testosterone concentrations (382 +/- 33 ng/dl) completed a 21-day placebo-controlled inpatient metabolic ward study comparing intramuscular (i.m.) placebo (n = 7) with low-dose (65 mg/week; n = 4) and high-dose (200 mg/week; n = 7) nandrolone decanoate, a testosterone analogue. Nitrogen balance, stable isotope-mass spectrometric measurement of de novo lipogenesis (DNL), resting energy expenditure, and gonadal hormone levels were measured. Both low-dose and high-dose nandrolone resulted in significant nitrogen retention (33-52 g nitrogen/14 days, representing gains of 0.5 to 0.9 kg lean tissue/week) compared with placebo (loss of 11 g nitrogen/week). This was reflected biochemically in a borderline significant reduction of high DNL (p < .06). Serum testosterone and gonadotropins were suppressed whereas resting energy expenditure was unchanged by nandrolone treatment. In 10 study subjects completing a 12-week open-label follow-up phase, body weight increased by 4.9 +/- 1.2 kg, including 3.1 +/- 0.5 kg lean body mass, and treadmill exercise performance also improved. In summary, nandrolone decanoate therapy in the absence of an exercise program in borderline hypogonadal men with AWS caused substantial nitrogen retention compared with placebo, similar in extent to the nitrogen retention previously achieved with recombinant growth hormone. It is reasonable to expand the criteria for androgen treatment in AWS to include at least patients in the lowest quartile of serum testosterone.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
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Onother one on low dose:

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Mulligan K, Zackin R, Clark RA, Alston-Smith B, Liu T, Sattler FR, Delvers TB, Currier JS; AIDS Clinical Trials Group 329 Study Team; National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Adult AIDS Clinical Trials Group. Effect of nandrolone decanoate therapy on weight and lean body mass in HIV-infected women with weight loss: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter trial. Arch Intern Med. 2005;165(5):578-85.

ABSTRACT

BACKGROUND: Weight loss is associated with accelerated mortality and disease progression in patients with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection. Although studies have examined a variety of anabolic therapies in HIV-infected men, the safety and efficacy of such treatments in women have not been adequately studied. METHODS: In this randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter, phase I/II study, 38 HIV-infected women with documented weight loss of 5% or greater in the preceding year or a body mass index of less than 20 kg/m(2) were randomized to receive nandrolone decanoate (100 mg) or an equivalent volume of placebo every other week by intramuscular injection. Subjects received blinded treatment for 12 weeks, followed by open-label therapy for 12 weeks. Lean body mass and fat (bioelectrical impedance analysis) and weight were measured at baseline and at weeks 6, 12, 18, and 24. Biochemical assessments of safety (hematologic analyses, liver function tests, and sex hormone measurements) were performed at these same time points. Clinical signs and symptoms were monitored biweekly. RESULTS: Subjects randomized to receive nandrolone had significant increases in weight and lean body mass during blinded treatment (4.6 kg [9.0%] and 3.5 kg [8.6%], respectively; P<.001 vs baseline and placebo in each case). Fat mass did not change statistically significantly in either group. Although there were no statistically significant differences between groups in biochemical measures, the number of grade 3 or greater toxicities, or reports of virilizing effects, a full assessment of safety cannot be made in a trial of this size. CONCLUSION: Nandrolone decanoate therapy may prove to be generally safe and beneficial in reversing weight loss and lean tissue loss in women with HIV infection and other chronic catabolic diseases.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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jboldman
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since most uses of steroids are illegal in the us the studies we can expect to see are limited.

jb

Posted by: guijr
What do you mean till law changes?

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guijr
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I see. So Bhasin, S; Storer, TW and collegues, thankfully have been breaking all the rules.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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