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Sustanon Controversy.. what do you believe?


Andy13
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Since this is (by far) the most educated and well-read BBing board I have encountered in a long time, I'm going to throw out a thought that many of you probably have never heard.

Contrary to stone-walled belief, sustanon is actually much like a single-ester Testosterone with half-life in the neighborhood of 4-5 days. The rumors about sustanon causing wildly fluctuating or hard-to-control blood levels are false (I believe).

I discussed this before on far less intelligent boards, probably reaching only a few. I will give some explaination, but later. I want to hear your thoughts .. Go ahead and bring it. Don't hold anything back..

Andy


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The Truth
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one thing, which is the results I have seen from bloodwork and also a graph of active ester HL on a different board a while ago seem to support the notion that sust should be injected every 2 days in order to fully utilize the HL of the prop it contains (which will clear out in a couple days. So, while agregate levels may not fluctuate too wildly, the prop component will introduce some variance if sust is injected on a twice weekly basis.

Personally, I would just go with straight prop or straight cyp or enanthate along with my other stack component. not that sust is bad per se, but rather that I would tailor my personal cycles whereby I would be running one of the other two to maximize benefits (e.g. a prop/fina combo or a cyp/eq combo depending on goals).


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Blade
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I almost hesitate to post this, but yes... you wouldn't observe wildly fluctuating levels from a single Sustanon injection. But I do believe the longest ester would extend the total half-life. Here is a crude and worthless graph plotting average mg released daily after a 250mg Sustanon injection :


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jboldman
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It seems to me that the initial peak after injection would be higher with a shallower tail than something like enanthate however my advice is the same as it has always been, do whatever is cheapest, injcet 3 times a week and yo uhave the base of a good cycle, 750mg of sos or 600 mg of enantahte.

I think all theories aside, we can all agree that more frequent injections equal a more stable blood level of test. As long as we agree that more stable blood levels are a good thing we have the basis of a common ground.

jb


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iced
 iced
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the one thing i do not like about sustanon, is the addition of propionate. Sure it provides an instant kick, but you would need to shoot an amp eod the first two weeks to get steady concentrations, at least in my experience. I have run sustanon two different ways. Once, two amps a week from week 1 on. The other, an amp eod for the first two weeks, than two amps a week there on out. I noticed much better strength and quality in the gains on week 3, then i did with 2 amps a week. Of course, this does not take into an account if i was eating better, or lifting more intensley, etc. Those factors are almost impossible to gauge as far as personal experience goes. Maybe i would like sustanon better if there was a slightly longer ester instead of propionate, say maybe the same ester that was in parabolan, where you could easily get by with one injection a week, preferably two.


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gman67
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Her is a crude and worthless graph plotting average mg released daily after a 250mg Sustanon injection

LOL


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Andy13
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Here is a (gasp) theoretical model for exponential decay of the ester...


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Andy13
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The model of sustanon compared to esters of various other half lives shows that sustanon is much, much, more like a single ester testosterone than you might think. I too believed that blood levels would be more difficult to control, compared to TE for instance.. until I plotted this..

I think there is A LOT of misconception about sustanon. There is an infamous thread that has been claimed by more different authors than I can count. I'm not talking about paraphrasing either. This gets cut-n-pasted, word for fucking word, and the sad part is that is it ridiculously erroneous and misleading. It's pretty much entirely shyte except for the few instances where universal, 'impossible-to-fuck-up no-matter-what' type of 'good' information such as "inject more frequently" is given.. But even then, it is buried in so much illogical garbage that the principles are skewed. I hate this post.

This is a huge reason why many BBers do not understand the concept of the ester. I'm not talking about knowing "longer ester= longer half life, shorter ester= faster acting. Knowledge of (only) this trivial information is dangerous. I remember when I first learned about esters and had only this understanding.. I thought I knew everything there was to know. It turns out that this isn't even the half of it.

Back to my rant about this infamous sustanon post, the author clearly does not understand how esters work. The common misconception that I (and probably many others) had once is that in sustanon, the prop releases first, and then the phenyl prop, followed by the longer esters (but later). After all, the longer esters don't kick in until week 3 or so, right? Nothing say's "I have no fucking clue about esters" quite like the latter statement..

This fundamental lack of understanding is something I feel is important, and I have made it my life-long goal to take the time and try and explain this (100's of times) to those who have been misinformed. A good many of them don't give a shit. They want the bottom line, after all, who gives a shit about esters during their 10-month winter hiatus from the gym? I can certainly appreciate that... AAS mentoring isn't for everyone and everyone shouldn't do it.. The problem is that it is usually these dudes (who care only to know where to stick the pin) that are the first one's to regurgitate the shit they heard yesterday, thus doing their part to perpetuate the cycle of ignorance�

Next time, I�ll tell you how I really feel about the idiots in this sport who litter the boards with filth and plagiarized garbage..

Andy


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iced
 iced
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Andy13, disregarding the misconception of sustanon, and it up and down flucuations, how should one properly run a cycle of sustanon? An amp eod for the first two weeks than two the subsequent weeks worked well for me. Do you yourself like sustanon, or do you just hate to see the misconception of this combo plastered all over?


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Andy13
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Posted by: iced
Andy13, disregarding the misconception of sustanon, and it up and down flucuations, how should one properly run a cycle of sustanon? An amp eod for the first two weeks than two the subsequent weeks worked well for me. Do you yourself like sustanon, or do you just hate to see the misconception of this combo plastered all over?

Your cycle looks fine except the frontload may have been an over-kill, at least on the theoretical model..

I think front loads should be completed within the first week.. If it is stretched out to two weeks, it's easy to over-shoot the mark..
You'll have higher levels of ACTIVE hormone during this time than during the regular cycle. The goal is get blood levels up TO max theraputic levels quicker.. I know you probably understand the theory of frontloading, but there are some who might think (pehaps from the name "frontload") that blood levels are highest in the beginning.

Andy

From a practical standpoint,


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Trevdog
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I hate that "the proper way to cycle sustenon" post as much as anyone. The big problem is that the authors are articulate enough to sound credible, so people tend to accept the garbage they wrote without thinking too much about it.

Their biggest error is to assume that the shorter esters are essentially "lost" since, as Andy mentioned, the author believes the longer esters do not begin to "release" for several days. Nonsense. Nothing is lost.

I also do not see how sust could act like a single ester with a half life of about 4 days since 100 mgs. is a very long ester. But I share your frustration.

Sustenon is a good blend which I use copiously in the beginning of cycles.


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Blade
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I realized that the graph from earlier was using a formula that is incorrect - I have a seperate one for multi-esters but forgot to update it, so here is a 250mg Sust injection, average mg released daily:


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Andy13
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Posted by: Trevdog
I hate that "the proper way to cycle sustenon" post as much as anyone. The big problem is that the authors are articulate enough to sound credible, so people tend to accept the garbage they wrote without thinking too much about it.

Their biggest error is to assume that the shorter esters are essentially "lost" since, as Andy mentioned, the author believes the longer esters do not begin to "release" for several days. Nonsense. Nothing is lost.

I also do not see how sust could act like a single ester with a half life of about 4 days since 100 mgs. is a very long ester. But I share your frustration.

Sustenon is a good blend which I use copiously in the beginning of cycles.

It seems every time I check, the generally accepted half for deconate ester is different. I tried to use mean values for half life for each ester...

The reason why sustanon's mean half life (theoretically) is 4-6 days and not longer is because the amount of actual, free testosterone is kind of misleading.

The weight of the deconate ester is much larger compared to propionate.. When it's weight is taken into consideration, the amount of deconate in the blend isn't nearly as much as it appears at a glance..

Andy


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Blade
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Yeah, you're right - forgot about that one. The cleaving of the decanoate ester makes it something like 64mg of testosterone remaining.


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