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kernelKurtz
(@kernelkurtz)
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27/06/2018 12:05 pm  

can anyone tell me why AAS raise BP and lipid levels? I am on 11 week of the following cycle:
week 1-10 500mg Testoviron
week 1-10 400mg EQ
week 11-12 Prop 100mg EOD
week 7-12 Tren 75mg ED...then went to EOD
week 7 1.25mg femara
week 13 clomid 300/100/50 Nolvadex 20mg ED
my blood pressure went from 110-115/70-80 to 130/80...resting heart rate from 65 to 78..befrore tren, i felt my heart beat at night..which guys I know on test talk about..with femara included wouldnt that reduce water retention?
i went from 190lbs to 206lbs not much fat..
thanx


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omnibus
(@omnibus)
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27/06/2018 12:31 pm  

Quote:can anyone tell me why AAS raise BP and lipid levels?

I'm not nandi but I think one reason for lipid change is non-aromatizing steroids and/or anti-aromatase use.Aromatization improves lipid levels.

Quote:my blood pressure went from 110-115/70-80 to 130/80...resting heart rate from 65 to 78..befrore tren, i felt my heart beat at night..which guys I know on test talk about..with femara included wouldnt that reduce water retention?

I would guess the palpitations are not related to BP but is a result of the AAS stimulating the nervous system.


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Nandi
(@nandi)
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Posts: 142
27/06/2018 1:15 pm  

People aren't exactly sure how androgens increase blood pressure but the most widely accepted theory is that androgens act on the kidney to increase renin production. This elevates angiotensin, which acts as a vasoconstrictor, and increases aldosterone production from the adrenal glands. The aldosterone causes sodium retention, which in turn causes water retention. This increases plasma volume. So the vasoconstriction coupled with the increased blood volume leads to increased blood pressure. Below is a schematic taken from a recent review:

http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/37/5/1199


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Nandi
(@nandi)
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27/06/2018 1:58 pm  

I didn't notice the second part of your question kernelKurtz. Sorry.

Androgens are thought to lower HDL by increasing the levels of an enzyme called hepatic lipase, which breaks down HDL.


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kernelKurtz
(@kernelkurtz)
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27/06/2018 2:33 pm  

so, once i discontinue AAS, everything will go back to normal? and in the future, if i stick with primobolan, var,EQ and small amounts of test(like 1cc per week)can I expect an increase in BP?

thanx again


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Nandi
(@nandi)
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27/06/2018 3:16 pm  

Your blood pressure and cholesterol levels should return to normal after a cycle. Mine always do, and that seems to be the general case. Your BP levels were not even all that high, really. Just at the high end of normal. My BP has gone as high as 150/104, with a resting pulse of around 100. Ddol is the worst offender for me.

Even though levels return to normal, it is hard to imagine it being very good for a person to have those levels elevated for 2 or 3 months at a time during a cycle. Anabolic steroids aren't totally benign.


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jboldman
(@jboldman)
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27/06/2018 3:51 pm  

Aha, therein lies the solution! Scrap the Dbol(it always bloated hell out of me and cramped me up), in fact scrap all the 17aa's and stick to the more benign injects. That along with proper diet, sodium control, and judicious supplementation can pretty much keep bp and blood lipids in control. YMMV

jb


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40andpumpin
(@40andpumpin)
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27/06/2018 4:47 pm  
Posted by: Nandi12
Even though levels return to normal, it is hard to imagine it being very good for a person to have those levels elevated for 2 or 3 months at a time during a cycle. Anabolic steroids aren't totally benign.

Very true. I believe the worst part of it is that you (we) are highly compounding the problem by weight training while the pressure is high and oft' times more excessively than would be normally due to the increased aggression and strength. This can put the heart muscle and valves especially under severe strain. It is my belief that this is actually what causes cardiac hypertrophy and NOT AS alone.

Further, IMO it is wise to use a BP med while 'on' to help minimize the dangers. At the very least HCT is an easy way to help yourself.

Another thing that is helpful is to never use stim's and keep cycles simple.


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Clarityandfocus
(@clarityandfocus)
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27/06/2018 5:29 pm  

I agree 40. I had my doctor put me on 20 mg of Prinivil and 40 mg of lipitor. I like to stay on for long periods of time and am just now breaking the ice into a new level of progress. Therefore, I have no plans to come off anytime soon. Heart disease is not all about blood lipids anyway, it is more about free radicals, oxidation of cholesterol and inflammation. I am studying and taking everything I know of to keep it at bay.

Clarity


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JGUNS
(@jguns)
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27/06/2018 6:29 pm  

Cardiac hypertrophy has been linked to intense exercise.. I believe that it is a relatively benign condition. I should say Left Ventrical thickness is what one might be worried about.. Here is an interesting article:

Resistance training and cardiac hypertrophy: unravelling the training effect.

Haykowsky MJ, Dressendorfer R, Taylor D, Mandic S, Humen D.

Faculty of Rehabilitation Medicine, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Resistance training (RT) is a popular method of conditioning to enhance sport performance as well as an effective form of exercise to attenuate the age-mediated decline in muscle strength and mass. Although the benefits of RT on skeletal muscle morphology and function are well established, its effect on left ventricular (LV) morphology remains equivocal. Some investigations have found that RT is associated with an obligatory increase in LV wall thickness and mass with minimal alteration in LV internal cavity dimension, an effect called concentric hypertrophy. However, others report that short- (<5 years) to long-term (>18 years) RT does not alter LV morphology, arguing that concentric hypertrophy is not an obligatory adaptation secondary to this form of exertion. This disparity between studies on whether RT consistently results in cardiac hypertrophy could be caused by: (i) acute cardiopulmonary mechanisms that minimise the increase in transmural pressure (i.e. ventricular pressure minus intrathoracic pressure) and LV wall stress during exercise; (ii) the underlying use of anabolic steroids by the athletes; or (iii) the specific type of RT performed. We propose that when LV geometry is altered after RT, the pattern is usually concentric hypertrophy in Olympic weightlifters. However, the pattern of eccentric hypertrophy (increased LV mass secondary to an increase in diastolic internal cavity dimension and wall thickness) is not uncommon in bodybuilders. Of particular interest, nearly 40% of all RT athletes have normal LV geometry, and these athletes are typically powerlifters. RT athletes who use anabolic steroids have been shown to have significantly higher LV mass compared with drug-free sport-matched athletes. This brief review will sort out some of the factors that may affect the acute and chronic outcome of RT on LV morphology. In addition, a conceptual framework is offered to help explain why cardiac hypertrophy is not always found in RT athletes.


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40andpumpin
(@40andpumpin)
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27/06/2018 7:19 pm  

JGUNS great read, thanks!


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Stratobastard
(@stratobastard)
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27/06/2018 8:12 pm  
Posted by: Nandi12
My BP has gone as high as 150/104, with a resting pulse of around 100. Ddol is the worst offender for me.

My BP was measured once at 150/110. The nurse that took it, said, "Oh, we'll need to use the big cuff on you." She switched to the bigger cuff, and the BP registered much lower - 132/85. Almost near normal...


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do or die
(@do-or-die)
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27/06/2018 8:49 pm  
Posted by: Stratobastard
My BP was measured once at 150/110. The nurse that took it, said, "Oh, we'll need to use the big cuff on you." She switched to the bigger cuff, and the BP registered much lower - 132/85. Almost near normal...

The same thing has happend to me.


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40andpumpin
(@40andpumpin)
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27/06/2018 9:23 pm  
Posted by: do or die
The same thing has happend to me.

Same here.


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ontime34
(@ontime34)
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28/06/2018 6:08 am  

Ditto


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