Combatting fina sid...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Combatting fina sides (rino gyno)  

  RSS

intense
(@intense)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
26/06/2018 5:17 am  

As u know, gyno from fina is rare. Arimidex, etc will not prevent gyno from fina, so if you are truely paranoid, do the following:

1) Simply supplement with 50mg of winny EOD <-- is this true??

Most people may may get a slight case of gyno after the cycle has ended. Many seem to think that this may be prolactin induced. This gyno can, 99% of the time, be easily cured by:

2) Supplementing with 1 gram of vitex (chaste berry) every day until the symptoms dissapear. In some cases, it takes only a few weeks. <-- is this true?

Using winny and chaste berry effective for gyno probs with tren or is Bromo?somethng the only real antidote??

Much appreciated.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)


Quote
JGUNS
(@jguns)
Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 138
26/06/2018 5:18 am  

Please... The only proven treatment for gyno has been estrogen antagonist/agonists like Nolvadex, clomid, and similar drugs. Nolvadex by far has the most science behind it. Herbal remedies and bromocriptine have never been proven.

Additionally,winstrol as a "progesterone antagonist" is a myth that has been thoroughly debunked and needs to die.

As I have always stated, gyno is part of a coordination of hormones. They are interrelated, so ideas of "progesterone induced gyno" are misleading. Estrogen is a necessary component of breast development.


ReplyQuote
Nandi12
(@nandi12)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 15
26/06/2018 5:20 am  

Quote:

Using winny and chaste berry effective for gyno probs with tren or is Bromo? None of that stuff is true. If you have gyno, take Nolvadex. If you are worried about getting gyno, take Nolvadex


ReplyQuote
JGUNS
(@jguns)
Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 138
26/06/2018 5:21 am  

LOL.. Nandi I think you and I are working on the same posts at the same time!


ReplyQuote
Nandi12
(@nandi12)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 15
26/06/2018 5:21 am  

You beat me by a minute, it seems


ReplyQuote
intense
(@intense)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 5
26/06/2018 5:22 am  

I just had to verify it here.

So tren is not that risky?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
- Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)


ReplyQuote
hhajdo
(@hhajdo)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
26/06/2018 5:24 am  

It looks like it will take a long time for that myth to die...

Int J Androl 1984 Feb;7(1):53-60 Related Articles, Links

Prolactin secretion in the human male is increased by endogenous oestrogens and decreased by exogenous/endogenous androgens.

Gooren LJ, van der Veen EA, van Kessel H, Harmsen-Louman W, Wiegel AR.

There is evidence that prolactin may be involved in testicular steroidogenesis, and we have therefore investigated whether there is feedback regulation of androgens/oestrogens on prolactin secretion in the human male. To assess this we have measured basal and TRH-stimulated prolactin levels in: Six eugonadal men before and after 2 weeks' administration of the aromatase inhibitor delta'-testolactone, which led to a fall in oestradiol levels with unchanged levels of testosterone. In these patients, prolactin levels decreased. Six eugonadal subjects before and after 6 weeks' administration of dihydroTestosterone undecanoate. In these subjects, prolactin levels decreased. Six agonadal subjects, tested after 12 weeks' treatment with dihydrotestosterone undecanoate and compared to: Six agonadal subjects who received no sex steroid treatment. Again, it was found that dihydrotestosterone treatment decreased prolactin levels in patients from Group C. Six eugonadal subjects were also studied before and after 6 weeks' administration of the androgen receptor antagonist, spironolactone, and this treatment increased Prl secretion. It is concluded that in the human male, endogenous oestrogens increase prolactin secretion whilst exogenous/endogenous androgens decrease prolactin secretion


ReplyQuote
JGUNS
(@jguns)
Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 138
26/06/2018 5:24 am  

Hhajdo, that study is proving what? I am a bit confused.


ReplyQuote
hhajdo
(@hhajdo)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
26/06/2018 5:25 am  
Posted by: JGUNS
Hhajdo, that study is proving what? I am a bit confused.

That bromo+fina doesn't make much sense since PRL secretion in males is generally decreased by androgens.
If PRL is increased on a cycle which contains AS that aromatize, it could be controlled by using SERMs or aromatase inhibitors.


ReplyQuote
JGUNS
(@jguns)
Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 138
26/06/2018 5:26 am  

Ah, I see where you were going with that. I was thinking you meant something else.

Here is another idea " just don't consider bromo as a treatment for gyno PERIOD".


ReplyQuote
macro
(@macro)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 27
26/06/2018 5:27 am  

first off

now...

"truths" for the day....

Progestin is not the same as progesterone (though progesterone is a progestin.. it does not work the other way around)

trenbolone has a high affinity to the PR, slightly more then progesterone

progestins can ANTAGONIZE and AGONIZE the receptor.. when they AGONIZE it the transcription can be significantly DIFFERENT than when Progesterone does.

in different tissues progestins can act... DIFFERENTLY.. in some as agonists and in others as antagonists...

if you would like to dispute any of the above be my guest....

btw- prolactin is a CAUSATIVE FACTOR in Gynocomastia as well as pseudogynocomastia..

take from that what you will..


ReplyQuote
JGUNS
(@jguns)
Member Moderator
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 138
26/06/2018 5:28 am  

Macro,

Now we are going to go through this again on my board? Look, progsterone is merely a part of a coordinated effort of hormones that MUST BE PRESENT in order for gyno to occur. Prolactin cannot be simply elevated and poof,here comes gyno. Estrogen must be present, which is the pathway through which most documented gyno occurs.

Prolactin, progesterone, GH, Estrogen, and IGF-1 are all stimulatory and act in and integrated fashion to initiate the sequence of events that is breast growth.

I am not sure what parts of this thread you feel are untrue either.


ReplyQuote
hhajdo
(@hhajdo)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
26/06/2018 5:29 am  
Posted by: macro
first off

now...

"truths" for the day....

Progestin is not the same as progesterone (though progesterone is a progestin.. it does not work the other way around)

trenbolone has a high affinity to the PR, slightly more then progesterone

progestins can ANTAGONIZE and AGONIZE the receptor.. when they AGONIZE it the transcription can be significantly DIFFERENT than when Progesterone does.

in different tissues progestins can act... DIFFERENTLY.. in some as agonists and in others as antagonists...

if you would like to dispute any of the above be my guest....

btw- prolactin is a CAUSATIVE FACTOR in Gynocomastia as well as pseudogynocomastia..

take from that what you will..

I know that progesterone & progestin(s) are not the same and I didn't say they are.
I also agree that prolactin can contribute to gyno development, but gyno is not caused by a single hormone.

from:
http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm

Prolactin is another anterior pituitary hormone integral to breast development. Prolactin is not only secreted by the pituitary gland but may be produced in normal mammary tissue epithelial cells and breast tumors. (39, 23). Prolactin stimulates epithelial cell proliferation only in the presence of estrogen and enhances lobulo-alveolar differentiation only with concomitant progesterone.


ReplyQuote
macro
(@macro)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 27
26/06/2018 5:31 am  
Posted by: JGUNS
Prolactin, progesterone, GH, Estrogen, and IGF-1 are all stimulatory and act in and integrated fashion to initiate the sequence of events that is breast growth.

by that reckoning the use of bromocriptine to suppress prolactin should have a positive impact on treatment and arresting the development of Gynecomastia...

btw- have never said that progestins alone were responsible..... in fact for a very long time.. have indicated that it is a variety of factors in conjunction...

however.. certain people have indicated that prolactin and progestins do not play a role and thus cannot be causative factors in gynecomastia and pseudogynocomastia.. this is incorrect.. attacking the issue soley through the ER and E suppresion is not the only way and is, as stated by you, only part of the "puzzle".


ReplyQuote
hhajdo
(@hhajdo)
Active Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 7
26/06/2018 5:31 am  

Macro, are you trying to say that trenbolone increases PRL ?


ReplyQuote
Share: