Female Pct??  

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zziggzzigg
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28/06/2018 10:38 am  

Anyone seen any resources or info on pct for females? I am of the thought that long term aas usage in female athletes can cause a cortisol and perhaps estrogen rebound that might hamper performance greatly after the aas is withdrawn, which would lead me to believe that some sort of pct could be an important part of female performance enhancement. (I am not worried about virilization issues as much as performance... think Chinese Olympic Swimmers to get my drift)


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jboldman
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28/06/2018 11:36 am  

Torchy?

jb


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Nandi12
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28/06/2018 12:18 pm  

In females, all the research I've seen centers on post-pill HPTA shutdown, which for all intents and purposes is the same as AAS shutdown. When women fail to resume their normal menstrual cycles after long term oral contraceptive use clomid (and occasionally bromocriptine) is often used to restore ovarian function just as it is in men to restore testicular function after an AAS cycle.

Presumably then the same rules apply to women: use clomid post cycle to speed up recovery.


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Torchy
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28/06/2018 1:02 pm  
Posted by: Nandi12
In females, all the research I've seen centers on post-pill HPTA shutdown, which for all intents and purposes is the same as AAS shutdown. When women fail to resume their normal menstrual cycles after long term oral contraceptive use Clomid (and occasionally bromocriptine) is often used to restore ovarian function just as it is in men to restore testicular function after an AAS cycle.

Presumably then the same rules apply to women: use clomid post cycle to speed up recovery.

Have never known any women to use PCTs post cycle. Actually, all females I have ever "spoken" with, those included are long time users and competitors, have never used any substance to bounce back. Many of these very females love the fact that they have not bounced back. I can see your point in trying to obtain a regualr cycle, but many of these women, the vast majority, are not concerned about the post cycle rebound. Many of these females actually never regain a mentrual cycle like they once have had. They will take anti-estrogens pre-contest with no alarm and some also take them year round to remain lower in BF%. This is the only occurance where I have ever ran into a female with the use of a Nolvadex or proviron. As far as clomid...I have never heard anyone that I know of to ever use them.


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zziggzzigg
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28/06/2018 1:54 pm  

your bodybuilding experience is appreciated... do the women suffer a major strength/endurance drop post cycle (beyond which the extra androgen strength would explain)?

It seems in men that withdraw long term aas therapy with no pct often become weaker than they were naturally before the cycle... and more prone to illness due to cortisol.

Being that the ovaries produce small amounts of testosterone, pct might make sense, although I remember reading that the female physiology can function very well with no testosterone. I am intrigued by the cortisol relationship to androgens and how this could be affected in female athletes to create a negative situation in regard to performance while cycling off pre-competition.

Is aromatase a major function in the female? With little androgen to naturally work with, would an AI do anything positive in the female?

Are cortisol reactions in the body connected to estrogens as well as androgens?


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Nandi12
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28/06/2018 2:55 pm  

If I were female I would be a bit concerned about the long term consequences of AAS induced amenorrhea, particularly osteoporosis. Even forgetting the added shutdown induced by steroids, exercise induced amenorrhea is a major health concern among sports physicians. It even has a new name: "The female athlete triad". Taking antiestrogens makes even less sense, contributing to an already serious problem. (Unless the term antiestrogen is being used loosely and SERM is what is really meant). These women are likely to face serious problems down the road if they keep their estrogen levels low. I don't get the logic of it.


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Torchy
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28/06/2018 3:41 pm  
Posted by: Nandi12
If I were female I would be a bit concerned about the long term consequences of AAS induced amenorrhea, particularly osteoporosis. Even forgetting the added shutdown induced by steroids, exercise induced amenorrhea is a major health concern among sports physicians. It even has a new name: "The female athlete triad". Taking antiestrogens makes even less sense, contributing to an already serious problem. (Unless the term antiestrogen is being used loosely and SERM is what is really meant). These women are likely to face serious problems down the road if they keep their estrogen levels low. I don't get the logic of it.

I don't either. I was relaying the info out there. Bone Density must take a huge hit this way, one would think?


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liftsiron
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28/06/2018 4:37 pm  
Posted by: Nandi12
If I were female I would be a bit concerned about the long term consequences of AAS induced amenorrhea, particularly osteoporosis. Even forgetting the added shutdown induced by steroids, exercise induced amenorrhea is a major health concern among sports physicians. It even has a new name: "The female athlete triad". Taking antiestrogens makes even less sense, contributing to an already serious problem. (Unless the term antiestrogen is being used loosely and SERM is what is really meant). These women are likely to face serious problems down the road if they keep their estrogen levels low. I don't get the logic of it.

I would think that the weight training would offset the decalcifaction of the bones somewhat in aas using women. My wife uses a proviron/nolva combo 25mg/10mg in the four weeks leading to a contest. Then after the show she uses .25mgs of l-dex eod for a month or so after to control estrogen rebound. Shes 37 and has great bone density. She's been doing low dose cycles for approx six or seven years.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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Nandi12
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28/06/2018 5:10 pm  

I guess either way the modern female bodybuilder can have her cake and eat it too, at least as far as bone density, now that we live in the era of calcitonin and bisphosphonates.


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Realgains
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28/06/2018 5:48 pm  

I ran the concerns about a women not regaining a normal periods by my endochrinologist a few months ago since my wife was having infrequent periods after her last cycle.

Here is his quote." If a woman does not regain ovarian function after steroid use then not only would there be inadequate estrogen production but Testosterone production as well. Testosterone production in the adrenals would not be enough.
As a result bone density would surely decrease over time no matter how much weight lifting or exercise she participates in".

He then said that these women should be on T replacement at a very low dose with test gel taken daily at between 2.5-5grams. This would result in normal T and estrogen levels.

I ased him about clomid use and he said that it might work and should be tried if T replacement was not desired.

My wife has gone back to permanent T replacement.

RG


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liftsiron
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28/06/2018 6:34 pm  
Posted by: Realgains
I ran the concerns about a women not regaining a normal periods by my endochrinologist a few months ago since my wife was having infrequent periods after her last cycle.

Here is his quote." If a woman does not regain ovarian function after steroid use then not only would there be inadequate estrogen production but testosterone production as well. Testosterone production in the adrenals would not be enough.
As a result bone density would surely decrease over time no matter how much weight lifting or exercise she participates in".

He then said that these women should be on T replacement at a very low dose with test gel taken daily at between 2.5-5grams. This would result in normal T and estrogen levels.

I ased him about clomid use and he said that it might work and should be tried if T replacement was not desired.

My wife has gone back to permanent T replacement.

RG

My wife's first few cycles, even though they were low, caused a disturbance in her off cycle peroids. This hasn't been the case to the same degree anyhow, since she has run nolva 10mgs for the last four weeks of her cycle and a few weeks after with a low dose anti aromatise, such as l-dex. The major problem that my wife had with recovery was when she ran 50mgs of deca in a cycle.

liftsiron is a fictional character and should be taken as such.


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