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C and bromocriptine for strength and stamina

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ozdazz
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some info I found on the use or vitamin c and bromo: PHARMACOLOGICAL DOSE VITAMIN C AND INTERRUPTED ORAL BROMOCRIPTINE A combination believed, based on clinical experience, to exhibit a synergistic effect on inducing increased somatotropin secretion The use of ascorbic acid mixture as an immune stimulant was discussed above as "vitamin C" . Bromocriptine was discussed immediately above. So why do we here discuss these two agents in combination? The reason is that some combinations exhibit characteristics not noted with either agent alone. Such a cooperative effect is known in pharmacology as "synergy". A perceived synergy of the ascorbate / bromocriptine was recognized in the late 1980's at the Mississippi Baptist Medical Center in Jackson, Mississippi, where patients placed on high dose vitamin C and bromocriptine experienced improvement in strength and stamina much greater than that noted with either agent alone. This was perceived as a possible major advance. In quality of life analyses of subjectively perceived problems in advanced cancer patients, the three worst problems are: loss of physical strength pain loss of stamina Deficits of strength and stamina, as perceived by the patients, are usually not addressed by the conventional physician, and there is no standard of care intervention for these problems. Patients are, however, pleased if the physician or his staff exhibits sufficient concern to define the extent of these problems, and possess sufficient therapeutic knowledge that these symptoms may be successfully treated. It is essential to remember the delay to effective of 1 to 8 weeks onset described in "bromocriptine" applies here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Bibliography of Literature Pharmacological Dose Vitamin C and Interrupted Oral Bromocriptine Stimulate Growth Hormone by Altering CNS Regulatory Parameters Proposed Mechanism of Clinical Synergy and Potential Benefits of this Combination in Immune Restoration Known Vitamin C Neuropharmacology - Vit. C actively absorbed from the gut by a molecular pump. (1) - Vit. C blood level more than doubles with oral intake of 1gm 4 times daily. (2) - Vit. C actively concentrated in the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) by a choroid plexus molecular pump. (3) - Vit. C CSF level proportional to blood level. (4) - Vit. C secreted into CSF actively transported into brain parenchyma. (5) - Vit. C most powerful aqueous phase antioxidant. (6) Predicted Vitamin C Neuropharmacology - Catacholamines (dopamine, norepinephrin) oxidatively unstable. (7) (8) - Vit. C prevents/reverses catacolamine oxidative breakdown. (9) (10) (11) - Central catacholamine activity directly modulates GHRH which in turn stimulates GH. (12) - GHRH stimulates GH and/or prolactin. (13) (14) (15) - Dopamine stimulates growth hormone (GH). (16) (17) - Norepinephrin stimulates GH. (18) - Monoclonal pituitary cells may secrete GH, prolactin, or both,with transitional states and secretory shifts induced by hormonal modulation. (19) (20) - Prolactin immunosuppressive. (21) (22) Bromocriptine Neuropharmacology - Bromocriptine (Bcp) blocks prolactin. (23) - Bcp stimulates GH. (24) (25) - GH stimulation associated with pulsatile reductions in somatostatin tone. (26) (27) - Bcp GH secretagogue activity likely arises because Bcp is a somatostatin blocker. (28) - Constant Bcp in time released preparations ineffective as GH secretagogue (29); oral or other intermittent administration essential. (30) - Bcp restores functional CD16 NK activity in hyperprolactinemic states. (31) Documented GH Mediated NK/Macrophage Stimulatory Effects - NK activity dependent on dialysable thymic factor. (32) - NK subset in peripheral blood T-cell derived. (33) - NK activity declines with aging. (34) - GH is primary trophic hormone of thymus gland and thymic restoration possible with GH replacement. (35) - GH stimulates NK cells. (36) (37) (38) - GH stimulates macrophages. (39) (40) (41) GH Mediated Strength/Energy Benefits - GH increases strength, energy. (42) (43) - GH stimulates protein anabolism. (44) (45) Evidence for Increased Vitamin E Requirement With Pharmacologic Doses of Vitamin C - Vit. E deficiency may be developed with pharmacological doses of Vit. C. (46) - Vit. E stimulates helper T-lymphocytes. (47) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) Mayersohn, M.: Ascorbic acid absorption in man: Pharmacokinetic implications. European J. Pharmacol., 19:140-142, (1972). (2) Komindr, S., Nichoalds, G. E., and Kitabchi, A. E: Bimodal effects of megadose vitamin C on adrenal steroid production in man: An in vivo study. Ann. N.Y. Acad. of Sci., Vol. 498:487-490, (1987). (3) Spector, R.: Vitamin homeostasis in the central nervous system: New England J. of Med., Vol. 296, No. 24:1393-1398 (1977). (4) Spector, R. and Lorenzo, A. V: Ascorbic acid homeostasis in the central nervous system. Am. J. of Physiol., Vol. 225, No. 4:757-763, (1973). (5) Spector, R.: Penetration of ascorbic acid from cerebrospinal fluid into brain. Exp. Neurol., 72:645-653, (1981). (6) Frei, B., England, L., and Ames B. N.: Ascorbate is an outstanding antioxidant in human blood plasma. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 86:6377-6381, (1989). (7) Graham, D. G.: On the origin and significance of neuromelanin. Arch. Pathol. Lab. Med., Vol 103:359-362, (1979). (8) Cohen, G.: Monoamine oxidase, hydrogen peroxide, and Parkinson's disease. Advances in Neurology, Vol. 45:119-125, edited by Yahr, M.D., and Bergmann, K. J. Raven Press. N.Y., (1986). (9) Reilly, D. K., Hershey, L., Rivera-Calimlim, L., and Shoulson, I.: On-off effects in Parkinson's disease: A controlled investigation of ascorbic acid therapy. Adv. in Neuro., Vol. 37: Experimental Therapeutics of Movement Disorders, edited by Fahn, S., Calne, D. B., and Shoulson, I. Raven Press, N.Y.; pp 51-60, (1983). (10) Tse, D. C. S., McCreery, R. L., and Adams, R. N.: Potential oxidative pathways on brain catecholamines. J. of Med. Chem. Vol. 19, No 1:37-40, (1976). (11) Sullivan, S. G. and Stern, A.: Effects of superoxide dismutase and catalase on catalysis of 6-hydroxydopamine and 6-aminodopamine autoxidation by iron and ascorbate. Biochem. Pharmac., Vol. 30, No. 16:2279-2285, (1981). (12) Muller, E. E.: Neural control of somatotropic function. Physiological Reviews, Vol. 67, No. 3:962-1053, (1987). (13) Asa, S. L., Kovacs, K., Stefaneanu, L., Horvath, E., Billestrup, N., Gonzalez-Manchon, C., and Vale, W.: Pituitary mammosomatotroph adenomas develop in old mice transgenic for growth hormone-releasing hormone. Soc. Exp. Biol. Med.: 232-235, 1990. (14) De Marinis, L., Mancini, A., D'Amico, C., Sambo, P., Tofani, A., Calabro, F., La Brocca, A., and Barbarino, A.: Periovulatory plasma prolactin response to synthetic growth hormone-releasing hormone in normal women. Metabolism, Vol. 38, No. 3:275-277, (1989). (15) Fragoso, J., Barrio, R., Donnay, S., and Hernandez, M.: Chronic stimulation of basal prolactin (PRL) secretion by growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) in children with GH neurosecretory dysfunction. Horm. Metab. Res., Vol. 22, No. 1:53-54, (1990). (16) Chihara, K., Kashio, Y., Kita, T., Okimura, Y., Kaji, H., Abe, H., and Fujita, T.: L-dopa stimulates release of hypothalamic growth hormone-releasing hormone in humans.: J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Vol. 62, No. 3:466-473, (1986). (17) Alba-Roth, J., von Creyz, C., Mehltretter, G., Schopohl, J., Muller, O. A., and von Werder, K.: Interaction of L-dopa and GHRH on GH secretion in normal men. J. Endocrinol. Invest. 12:783-787, (1989). (18) Negro-Vilar, A., Ojeda, S. R., Advis, J. P., and McCann, S. M.: Evidence for noradrenergic involvement in episodic prolactin and growth hormone release in ovariectomized rats. Endocrinology, 105:86-91, (1979). (19) Bockafor, F. R. and Schwarz, L. K.: Cultures of GH3 cells contain both single and dual hormone secretors. Endo., Vol. 122, No. 24:762-765, (1988). (20) Bockfor, F. R., and Schwarz, L. K.: Cultures of GH3 cells contain both single and dual hormone secretors. Endo., Vol. 122, No. 2:762-765, (1988). (21) Iwatani, Y., Amino, N., Tachi, J., Kimura, M., Ura, I., Mori, M., Miyai, K., Nasu, M., and Tanizawa, O.: Changes of lymphocyte subsets in normal pregnant and postpartum women: Postpartum increase of NK/K (Leu 7) cells. Am. J. Reprod. Immunol. Microbiol., 18:52-55, (1988). (22) Nicoletti, I., Gerli, R., Orlandi, S., Migliorati, G., Rambotti, F., and Riccardi, C.: Defective natural killer cell activity in puerperal hyperprolactinemia. J. Reprod. Immunol, 15:113-121, (1989). (23) Samaan, N. A.: Prolactinoma, a prevalent gonadoinhibitory tumor, responds well to treatment. Oncology, Vol. 28, No. 1, (1983). (24) Camanni, F., Massara, F., Belforte, L., and Molinatti, G. M.: Changes in plasma growth hormone levels in normal and acromegalic subjects following administration of 2-bromo-ergocryptine. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. 40:363-366, (1975). (25) Vance, M. L., Kaiser, D. L., Frohman, L. A., Rivier, J., Vale, W. W., and Thorner, M. O.: Role of dopamine in the regulation of growth hormone secretion: Dopamine and bromocriptine augment growth hormone (GH)releasing hormone-stimulated GH secretion in normal man. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Met., Vol. 64: 1136-1141, (1987). (26) Plotsky, P. M. and Vale, W.: Patterns of growth hormone-releasing factor and somatostatin secretion into the hypophysial-portal circulation of the rat. Science, Vol. 230: 461-463, (1985). (27) Stachura, M. E., Tyler, J. M., and Farmer, P. K.: Combined effects of human growth hormone (GH)-releasing factor-44 (GRF) and somatostatin (SRIF) on post-SRIF rebound release of GH and prolactin: A model for GRF-SRIF modulation of secretion. Endo., Vol. 123, No. 3:1476-1482, (1988). (28) Wood, D. F., Docherty, K., Ramsden, D. B., and Sheppard, M.C.: A comparison of the effects of bromocriptine and somatostatin on growth hormone gene expression in the rat anterior pituitary gland in vitro. Molecular and Cellular Endocrinol. 52:257-261, (1987). Elsevier Scientific Publishers Ireland, Ltd. (29) del Pozo, E., Schluter, K., Nuesch, E., Rosenthaler, J., and Kerp, L: Pharmacokinetics of a long-acting bromocriptine preparation (Parlodel LATM) and its effect on release of prolactin and growth hormone. Eur. J. Clin. Pharmacol. 29: 615-618, (1986). (30) Iovino, M., Monteleone, P., and Steardo, L.: Repetitive growth hormone-releasing hormone administration restores the attenuated growth hormone (GH) response to GH-releasing hormone testing in normal aging. J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab. Vol. 69, No. 4:910-913, (1989). (31) Honorati, M. C., Travaglini, P., de Bernardi, B., Scorza, R., Hu, C., Togni, M. E., Radelli, L. Vanoli, M., and Zanussi, C.: NK activity in patients with pathological hyperprolactinemia: effect of bromocriptine. Intern J. Neuroscience, Vol. 51:303-305, (1990). (32) Hamprecht, K., Votsch, W., and Anderer, F. A.: Activation of human monocyte and natural killer cell-mediated tumour cell killing by two dialysable thymic factors. Scand. J. Immunol. 24:59-71, (1986). (33) Schmidt, R. E., Murray, C., Daley, J. F., Schlossman, S. F., and Ritz, J.: A subset of natural killer cells in peripheral blood displays a mature T-cell phenotype. J. Exp. Med., Vol. 164:351-356, (1986). (34) Albright, J. W. and Albright, J. F.: Age-associated impairment of murine natural killer activity. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 80:6371-6375, (1983). (35) Goff, B. L., Roth, J. A., Arp, L. H., and Incefy, G. S.: Growth hormone treatment stimulates thymulin production in aged dogs. Clin. Exp. Immunol., 68:580-587, (1987). (36) Saxena, Q. B., Saxena, R. K., and Adler, W. H.: Regulation of natural killer activity in vivo. Int. Archs Allergy Appl. Immun., 67:169-174, (1982). (37) Davila, D. R., Brief, S., Simon J., Hammer, R. E., Brinster, R. L., and Kelley, K. W.: Role of growth hormone in regulating T-dependent immune events in aged, nude, and transgenic rodents. J. Neurosci. Res., 18:108-116, (1987). (38) Kelley, K. W., Davila, D. R., Brief, S., Simon, J., and Arkins, S.: A pituitary-thymus connection during aging. Ann. N. Y. Acad. of Sci., Vol. 521:88-98, (1988). (39) Kelley, K.: Growth hormone, lymphocytes, and macrophages. Biochemical Pharmacology, Vol. 38, No. 5:705-713, (1989). (40) Edwards, C. K., Ghiasuddin, S. M., Schepper, J. M., Yunger, L. M., and Kelley, K. W.: A newly defined property of somatotropin: priming of macrophages for production of superoxide anion. Science, Vol. 239:769-771, (1988). (41) Kelley, K. W., Brief, S., Westly, H. J., Novakofski, J., Bechtel, P. J., Simon, J., and Walker, E. R.: Hormonal regulation of the age-associated decline in immune function. Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci., Vol. 496:91-97, (1987). (42) Pointing, G. A., Ward, H. C., Halliday, D., and Sim, A. J. W.: Protein and energy metabolism with biosynthetic human growth hormone in patients on full intravenous nutritional support. J. Parent. and Ent. Nutri., Vol. 14, No. 5:437-441, (1990). (43) Ward, H. C., Halliday, D., and Sim, A. J. W.: Protein and energy metabolism with biosynthetic human growth hormone after gastrointestinal surgery. Ann. Surgery, Vol. 206, No. 1:56-61, (1987). (44) Fong, Y., Rosenbaum, M., Tracey, K. J., Raman, G., Hesse, D. G., Matthews, D. E., Leibel, R. L., Gertner, J. M., Fischman, D. A., and Lowry, S. F.: Recombinant growth hormone enhances muscle myosin heavy-chain mRNA accumulation and amino acid accrual in humans. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 86:3371-3374, (1989). (45) Lehmann, S. L., Teasley, K. M., Konstantinides, N. N., Konstantinides, F., and Cerra, F. B.: Growth hormone enables effective nutrition by peripheral vein in postoperative patients: a pilot study. J. Amer. Coll. Nutr., Vol. 9, No. 6:610-615, (1990). (46) Chen, L. H.: An increase in vitamin E requirement induced by high supplementation of vitamin C in rats. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 34:1036-1041, (1981). (47) Corwin, L. M., Gordon, R. K., and Shloss, J.: Studies of the mode of action of vitamin E in stimulating T-cell mitogenesis. Scand. J. Immunol., 14:565-571, (1981).


   
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(@bigock)
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at what dosages ozzdazz, bromo seems to be a very good supplement witj lots of good effects that i am seriosly considering adding to my regime Bigock


   
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ozdazz
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I would start off with 1.25mg thats half a tab untill you get used to it then take a full tab and slowly work up to a level thats good for you under 6mg per day. I have used it at 2.50mg per day and if you start at that dose it makes you feel like crap work up. The following was copied from professional muscle board: BromoFAQ BromoFAQ (T-mag) Most of you have been waiting with bated breath for an update regarding my experiences with the dopaminergic drug, bromocriptine maleate (BM), something I've talked about before here in this column and at the T-Mag forum. [Editor's note: Bromocriptine's approved use is for treating Parkinson's and other neurologic disorders.] I've continued to use Parlodel (brand name bromocriptine maleate) as I'm fortunate enough to have an enlightened physician friend who's legally prescribing it for me. While previously I was excited by the theoretical fat loss potential of BM, I have to say that practically, the results surpassed even my expectations. Currently, I'm 174 pounds at under 6% body fat as measured by calipers. Now I'm sure some of you out there are going to say, "Shit, man, you're tiny!" Well then, this segment of "Useful Stuff" is not for you! If you're interested in becoming a 250-pound monster, my experiences and my opinions are probably of minimal interest and use to you. Lots of luck, fellas. But if you're interested in more of an underwear model type of look (a look that women seem to appreciate a whole lot more than the Conan the Barbarian look), read on. Are you still with me? Good! BM has helped me lose just over sixteen pounds of adipose tissue in about two months. So how did I do it? I started by taking 2.5mg of BM per day before bed back in the middle of the summer. This was actually a mistake. For starters, the dose was too high for me to start with and taking this before bed was probably not a smart idea. Unfortunately, BM has some CNS stimulatory effects (at least on me) that caused me to have a heck of a time falling a sleep. A few days into this experiment, I opted to switch from taking it before bedtime to taking it around 6 or 7 A.M. in the morning. If you're planning on using BM, I'd strongly suggest that you not take it at night. However, even switching to the daytime didn't eliminate all the side effects. I still felt "twitchy"… I suppose that's the best way to describe it. Suspecting that the dose might still be too high, I opted to cut back to 1.25mg of BM per day and titrate my way up. I feel this method is the absolute safest and best way to use BM. So I'd also suggest that if you're going to try BM, start at 1.25 mg. I titrated up as high as 6.25 mg per day which was the threshold of tolerability for me (and then I dropped down to 5.0 mg which is where I am now). The way I titrated up was to increase the dose by 1.25 mg every five days. This seemed to minimize the CNS and psychological side effects that BM can impart. So how did BM make me feel and what did I use with it? Well, I ended up adding in a small amount of Cytomel around the third week (25 mcg of t3 per day to be exact). I'm not sure how necessary this is for everyone, but I noticed that I was "cold" in the mornings about two weeks after I started the BM. My body temperature was down about 0.4 degrees Fahrenheit and I decided that this could adversely impact my quest to metabolize fat (so hence, I added in enough T3 to get by body temperature back to baseline). I'm not sure if the drop in body temperature was caused by the BM or the change in my diet, but it's surely something you might want to look at and be aware of when you start using BM. Adjust accordingly. Dopaminergic agonists tend to have a stimulant effect. I actually like the way BM makes me feel; it seems to "up my energy" but not in a speedy, ephedra sort of manner. I'm more alert and less drained when using BM. It also affected my diet in an unconscious manner. I've always craved carbohydrates — this flaw has always been the demise of any dieting program I've undertaken and made keto dieting (especially Fat Fasting) exceedingly difficult. I noticed that BM tended to blunt my craving for carbs. It also blunted my appetite. I wouldn't characterize BM as an appetite suppressant in the manner that phenylpropanolamine or phentiramine resins are, but I noticed that instead of eating everything on my plate because it was there, I only ate until I was satiated. So yes, my caloric intake dropped by about 500 calories per day (this is an average and a guesstimate) and I consumed less carbohydrates (this was unintentional). Upon reflection, my diet looked a lot like the old Isocaloric Diet that Dan Duchaine used to espouse where you eat an almost equal ratio of carbs, fats, and proteins. It's important to add that all of these changes in my diet were unconscious and I never felt hungry or unsatisfied. My tastes just changed quite a bit while using BM. My results thus far with BM look like this: when I started this experiment, I weighed 196 pounds and held about 13.2% body fat. Yesterday, I weighed in at 174 pounds at approximately 5.5% body fat (it's hard to be exact with the calipers when your skin folds get thinner). This represents just over a sixteen-pound loss in body fat in two months. I realize this may not seem spectacular when compared to keto dieting, after all, this merely represents a two to three-pound weight loss per week. Heck, people do that with Slim Fast. But there are a few things to keep in mind that make this truly interesting, if not downright amazing: 1) My loss of lean body mass was minimal. Of the 22 pounds I dumped, less than six pounds of that was LBM. Had I opted to use a mild anabolic or MAG-10, I'm sure I could've eliminated any and all loss of LBM. 2) I made no conscious effort to change my diet! This is truly huge. Even though my diet did change substantially, it wasn't a conscious effort. All I intended to do was take a few extra pills per day, not suffer through some Draconian dieting scheme. This was very easy! 3) I feel fantastic. When was the last time you heard of anyone feeling truly fantastic while trying to lose weight? I'm sure I could've lost more fat in this time period had I "known what I was doing" (remember, this was an experiment). I'm going to continue using BM at 5.0mg per day for the next sixty days or so. Expect another, more in-depth update at that time. I'll leave you with a few final thoughts about using BM for weight loss. I'd suggest not using any ephedra based products (or yohimbine or synephrine) with BM as even the smallest dose of ephedra (8mg) caused the hair on the back of my neck to stand straight up. You'll most likely not enjoy the way you feel with stimulatory alkaloids if you're on BM. I'd also suggest that you consider adding an anabolic with BM (MAG-10 will work fine). If you do choose to use BM, drop us a line here at T-mag and let us know your results.


   
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Luto
 Luto
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Anyone experienced weird effect like making you tongue-tied and unable to pronounce certain words and making your speech a bit 'jerky' when using bromo continuously ed?


   
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ozdazz
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uuummmmmm nah when I started at a high dose without working up from a low dose made me feel sleepy all the time and light headed


   
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Luto
 Luto
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it must be me not the bromo then 😀


   
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