Hypertrophy-specific training  

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Stay Puft
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21/05/2019 6:37 pm  
Posted by: Fluffy
HST is now being called RYP I think, RYP is the last HST version by the guy.

I search and couldn't find anything to support this. Have a link?

Only I Can Stop Me.

Aspartame killed my father.. and raped my Mother!


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DocJ
 DocJ
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21/05/2019 6:57 pm  

No way my legs would recover that fast and back would be questionable as well.


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Stay Puft
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21/05/2019 7:24 pm  
Posted by: DocJ
No way my legs would recover that fast and back would be questionable as well.

From 3 sets? I've not had a problem while doing HST and I used to get badass DOMS in my lower body doing 6-9 sets of exercises.

Only I Can Stop Me.

Aspartame killed my father.. and raped my Mother!


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MarcusW
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21/05/2019 7:52 pm  

Trained HST style for 2-3 years and loved it.
It keeps tabs on CNS overtraining, has a built in way of variation to avoid your body adapting to the stimulus, by doing an exercise 3x/week and not to failure you also get a lot stronger and it's easy to do next to a skill sport because you're not to crippled for effective skill training all the time by muscle soreness.
No train a bit different but still apply most HST principles

Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)


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Stay Puft
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21/05/2019 8:18 pm  
Posted by: MarcusW
... and it's easy to do next to a skill sport because you're not to crippled for effective skill training all the time by muscle soreness.

This is a great point about a reason I live HST! I could have phased it more poetically!

Only I Can Stop Me.

Aspartame killed my father.. and raped my Mother!


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HugeDeep
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21/05/2019 9:38 pm  
Posted by: MarcusW
Trained HST style for 2-3 years and loved it.
It keeps tabs on CNS overtraining, has a built in way of variation to avoid your body adapting to the stimulus, by doing an exercise 3x/week and not to failure you also get a lot stronger and it's easy to do next to a skill sport because you're not to crippled for effective skill training all the time by muscle soreness.
No train a bit different but still apply most HST principles

I have only been doing HST for about a week but i cant wait to see where i am going to go with it!!
D

"SPES ET FIDES"


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DocJ
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21/05/2019 10:01 pm  
Posted by: Stay Puft
From 3 sets? I've not had a problem while doing HST and I used to get badass DOMS in my lower body doing 6-9 sets of exercises.

With squats/SLD as the exercises, yes!
Also, how can you increase strength without ever going to at least positive failure.


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MarcusW
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22/05/2019 6:33 am  

quote:


Also, how can you increase strength without ever going to at least positive failure.


perfectly fine

IMO improving strength works even better without going to failure since strength is more a (neural) skill.

Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)


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DocJ
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22/05/2019 7:00 am  

Ok, then how are you going to have any serious fiber recruitment? Anyone who's been training for a number of years knows that increased strength DOESN'T always equal increased muscle growth.


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guijr
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22/05/2019 7:17 am  
Posted by: DocJ
Also, how can you increase strength without ever going to at least positive failure?

Hope that helps to support your point of view:

============================

Drinkwater EJ, Lawton TW, Lindsell RP, Pyne DB, Hunt PH, McKenna MJ. Training leading to repetition failure enhances bench press strength gains in elite junior athletes. J Strength Cond Res. 2005;19(2):382-8.

ABSTRACT

The purpose of this study was to investigate the importance of training leading to repetition failure in the performance of 2 different tests: 6 repetition maximum (6RM) bench press strength and 40-kg bench throw power in elite junior athletes. Subjects were 26 elite junior male basketball players (n = 12; age = 18.6 +/- 0.3 years; height = 202.0 +/- 11.6 cm; mass = 97.0 +/- 12.9 kg; mean +/- SD) and soccer players (n = 14; age = 17.4 +/- 0.5 years; height = 179.0 +/- 7.0 cm; mass = 75.0 +/- 7.1 kg) with a history of greater than 6 months' strength training. Subjects were initially tested twice for 6RM bench press mass and 40-kg Smith machine bench throw power output (in watts) to establish retest reliability. Subjects then undertook bench press training with 3 sessions per week for 6 weeks, using equal volume programs (24 repetitions x 80-105% 6RM in 13 minutes 20 seconds). Subjects were assigned to one of two experimental groups designed either to elicit repetition failure with 4 sets of 6 repetitions every 260 seconds (RF(4 x 6)) or allow all repetitions to be completed with 8 sets of 3 repetitions every 113 seconds (NF(8 x 3)). The RF(4 x 6) treatment elicited substantial increases in strength (7.3 +/- 2.4 kg, +9.5%, p < 0.001) and power (40.8 +/- 24.1 W, +10.6%, p < 0.001), while the NF(8 x 3) group elicited 3.6 +/- 3.0 kg (+5.0%, p < 0.005) and 25 +/- 19.0 W increases (+6.8%, p < 0.001). The improvements in the RF(4 x 6) group were greater than those in the repetition rest group for both strength (p < 0.005) and power (p < 0.05). Bench press training that leads to repetition failure induces greater strength gains than nonfailure training in the bench press exercise for elite junior team sport athletes.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
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22/05/2019 7:45 am  
Posted by: DocJ
Also, how can you increase strength without ever going to at least positive failure.

On the other hand, JAP have just released a very interesting paper on training to failure versus strength gains. Let us take a look at it, but before I'd like to summarise some of the most important findings:

(i) both training to failure and not to training failure (NRF) resulted in similar gains in 1RM muscle strength, muscle power of the arm and leg muscles, and maximal number of repetitions performed during the parallel squat;

(ii) better gains in muscle power were observed after the preceding NRF training;

(iii) training to failure resulted in larger gains in the number of repetitions performed in the bench press exercise;

(iv) strength training leading to reps to failure resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas not training to failure resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations, an elevation in resting serum total concentration at Test, and an elevation IGFGB-3.

============================

Izquierdo M, Ibanez J, Gonzalez-Badillo JJ, Hakkinen K, Ratamess NA, Kraemer WJ, French DN, Eslava J, Altadill A, Asiain X, Gorostiaga EM. Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength and muscle power gains. J Appl Physiol. 2006 Jan 12; [Epub ahead of print].

ABSTRACT:

The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 weeks of resistance training to failure vs. non-failure, followed by an identical 5- week peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic/catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically-active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n=14), non-failure (NRF; n=15) or control groups (C;n=13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=yhst-20189112917352&query=<a href='https://www.buysteroids.ws/liothyronine-1350/citomed-29169.html'>t3</a>&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cemproducts.com%2Fnsearch.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">T3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1RM bench press (23% and 23%) and parallel squat (22% and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27% and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26% and 29%) and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66% and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press The peaking phase (T2 to http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=yhst-20189112917352&query=T3&.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cemproducts.com%2Fnsearch.htm l" target="_blank" rel="noopener">T3) followed after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total Testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 following resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 in order to preserve IGF availability.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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guijr
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22/05/2019 8:05 am  

Another interesting finding regarding muscular endurance that seems to be good news to competitive athletes. The same aforementioned authors concluded that this investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of resistance training not leading to failure for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period. However, training leading to repetition failure seemed to more beneficial for enhancing upper-body local muscular endurance.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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MarcusW
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22/05/2019 8:23 am  

quote:


Ok, then how are you going to have any serious fiber recruitment? Anyone who's been training for a number of years knows that increased strength DOESN'T always equal increased muscle growth.


True, strength doesn't equal hypertrophy.
I've wondered myself why HST which seems to be geared more to strength development (high frequency, no failure) seems to be able to effectively stimulate hypertrophy.
They have of course their own theory about that, see HST FAQ, which is pretty plausible btw.
But proof is in the pudding and I gained in those 2 years about 4kg of musclemass without ever going to failure. Which is pretty decent after about 7 years of training.
Before that I trained HIT style and was going nowhere for around a year.

With respect to the fiber recruitment: In the 5 reps blocks and the negatives blocks the weights are high enough for serious fiber recruitment without having to go to failure.

quote:


Hope that helps to support your correct point of view


So you think the correct point of view is that you need at least concentric failure to gain strength (am not talking about hypertrophy here)???

Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)


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Stay Puft
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22/05/2019 8:40 am  
Posted by: MarcusW
True, strength doesn't equal hypertrophy.
I've wondered myself why HST which seems to be geared more to strength development (high frequency, no failure) seems to be able to effectively stimulate hypertrophy.

HST= Hypertrophy-specific training. Have you forgetted everything in Haycocks write up?

Only I Can Stop Me.

Aspartame killed my father.. and raped my Mother!


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MarcusW
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22/05/2019 9:10 am  

quote:


HST= Hypertrophy-specific training. Have you forgetted everything in Haycocks write up


LOL of course I know HST means hypertrophy specific training and should stimulate hypertrophy, but it's strange this is done with methods which are typically used to stimulate strength gains, i.e high frequency, no failure.

Just remember, somewhere, a little Chinese girl is warming up with your max (Jim Conroy, Olympic weightlifting coach)


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