Train To Failure Or Not  

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jboldman
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31/07/2018 2:35 pm  

well, it depends......

jb

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J Appl Physiol 100: 1647-1656, 2006. Differential effects of strength training leading to failure versus not to failure on hormonal responses, strength, and muscle power gains
Mikel Izquierdo,1 Javier Ibañez,1 Juan José González-Badillo,2 Keijo Häkkinen,3 Nicholas A. Ratamess,4 William J. Kraemer,5 Duncan N. French,6 Jesus Eslava,1 Aritz Altadill,1 Xabier Asiain,1 and Esteban M. Gorostiaga1

1Studies, Research and Sport Medicine Center, Government of Navarra and 2Olympic Center of Sport Studies, Spanish Olympic Committee, Madrid, Spain; 3Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland, 4Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, New Jersey; 5Department of Kinesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut; and 6Institute of Sport, Northumbria University, Newcastle, United Kingdom

The purpose of this study was to examine the efficacy of 11 wk of resistance training to failure vs. nonfailure, followed by an identical 5-wk peaking period of maximal strength and power training for both groups as well as to examine the underlying physiological changes in basal circulating anabolic and catabolic hormones. Forty-two physically active men were matched and then randomly assigned to either a training to failure (RF; n = 14), nonfailure (NRF; n = 15), or control groups (C; n = 13). Muscular and power testing and blood draws to determine basal hormonal concentrations were conducted before the initiation of training (T0), after 6 wk of training (T1), after 11 wk of training (T2), and after 16 wk of training (t3). Both RF and NRF resulted in similar gains in 1-repetition maximum bench press (23 and 23%) and parallel squat (22 and 23%), muscle power output of the arm (27 and 28%) and leg extensor muscles (26 and 29%), and maximal number of repetitions performed during parallel squat (66 and 69%). RF group experienced larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. The peaking phase (T2 to T3) after NRF resulted in larger gains in muscle power output of the lower extremities, whereas after RF it resulted in larger gains in the maximal number of repetitions performed during the bench press. Strength training leading to RF resulted in reductions in resting concentrations of IGF-1 and elevations in IGFBP-3, whereas NRF resulted in reduced resting cortisol concentrations and an elevation in resting serum total Testosterone concentration. This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance. Elevation in IGFBP-3 after resistance training may have been compensatory to accommodate the reduction in IGF-1 to preserve IGF availability.


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jboldman
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31/07/2018 4:04 pm  

exactly my motivation for posting this abstract!

jb


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HOTROCKS
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31/07/2018 4:44 pm  

Referring to the above mention thread

Humm !

Well! Good read, but it doesn’t quite cut it in my book.
I could go on and on with this long-lived debate.
But, spouting research isn’t a good way to go about it.
Personal individual experience is the proof.
We are all anatomically the same and with that being the “fact”(if I may), then
what will work for me, it will also work for you, but each to their on degree.
The body will adapt to stress until the stress is relinquished, be it hot, cold, stressful emotions. And yes heavy burdens.
I guess the real question is. How long, how often and how much does it take for you to achieve the greatest amount of adaptation to get you to overcome the stress placed upon you.
IMHO the answer is, within the individual own physiology.

To fatigue or not to fatigue ! That is the question?

I totally believe that somewhere through your weekly routine, that one day you should take it to TMF.
What is TMF ? How do you know you have arrived?
When you can no longer do the exercise without breaking good form.
Is the above statement actually taking it to the full fatigue?
I would say not , but in the context of bodybuilding I would say Yes !

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

HOT ROCKS

Rock On !


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guijr
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31/07/2018 7:53 pm  

And one thing that we have to keep in mind is that when one goes to the max, the risk of injury increases, and I'm talking about catastrophic injuries like distal tendon ruptures/tears etc. Don't want to preach here, but I have seen and read things over the years... like lumbar and cervical disk herniation, chronic knee/elbow/shoulder pain, abdominal hernia etc. Lou Ferrigno (in his old, but good video) used to say that we have to be careful with extremely heavy weights.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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HugeDeep
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31/07/2018 8:35 pm  

A certain amount of caution is always necessary with anything in life! I do agree with that giujr. And for you HR, yes hope and faith, your latin is intact!

"SPES ET FIDES"


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guijr
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01/08/2018 5:11 am  

Man, show me a picture of yours and I'll tell you if it works . Now serious, it seems cool, what would be your complete chest and back routine?

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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DocJ
 DocJ
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01/08/2018 5:47 am  

Details huh? Here we go:

Chest Workout A: (Failure)
1. BB Incline 2 x 6-8 reps - First set to positive fail, Second set to positive fail and then x-reps.
2. Pec Deck 2 x 8-10 reps - First set to positive fail, Second set to positive fail and then 2 drop sets.
3. Weighted Dips 1 x 10-12 - To positive fail and 1-2 forced reps.

Chest Workout B: (SUB-Failure)
1. DB Bench 4 x 12 reps
2. Hammer Incline Machine 3 x 12 reps
3. Cable Crossovers 3 x 12 reps

Back Workout A: (Failure)
1. BB Row 2 x 6-8 reps - First set to positive fail, Second set to positive fail and then 2 drop sets.
2. Rack Chins 2 x 10-12 reps - First set to positive fail, Second set to positive fail and then x-reps.
3. Nautilus Pullover 1 x 10-12 reps - First set to positive fail, Second set to positive fail and 1-2 forced reps.

Back Workout B: (SUB-Failure)
1. T-Bar Row 4 x 12 reps
2. Hammer Pulldown 3 x 12 reps
3. Low Cable Row 3 x 12 reps

Whew!


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guijr
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01/08/2018 6:43 am  

Seems well designed. These are major muscle groups routines, wondering how would be for small ones like biceps and triceps.

"The medals don't mean anything and the glory doesn't last. It's all about your happiness. The rewards are going to come, but my happiness is just loving the sport and having fun performing" ~ Jackie Joyner Kersee.


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DocJ
 DocJ
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01/08/2018 7:39 am  
Posted by: guijr
Seems well designed. These are major muscle groups routines, wondering how would be for small ones like biceps and triceps.

Just use the same concepts...I use more machines/cables for arms on the SUB-Fail day as I can get a better "feel" due to the increase in set volume (I still include some kind of free weight exercise though).

Example:
Tricep Workout A: (Failure)
BB Close Grip Bench 2 x 6-8 reps, etc.
BB Overhead Extension 1 x 10-12 reps, etc.
BB Lying Extension (skullcrushers) 1 x 10-12 reps, etc.

Tricep Workout B: (SUB-Failure)
DB Lying Extension 3 x 10-12 reps
Cable Overhead Extension (rope) 3 x 10-12 reps
Cable Pushdowns 3 x 10-12 reps


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DocJ
 DocJ
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01/08/2018 8:41 am  

Also, some may wonder why I don't just mix fail/sub-fail workouts, like going to failure on 1-2 exercises then sub-fail on 1-2/workout. The reason is b/c the nervous system will be maximally taxed once you've done even 1 set to failure with set extensions (forced reps, ect), so any sets after that even if sub-fail wouldn't be as effective IMO.


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